Posted on Apr 18, 2019
Can a platoon sgt tell a female soldier that she is required to wear a bra when in civilians?
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I am a female in the army current on rotation over seas. I was just told by my team leader that my platoon Sgt (female) told him that I need to start wearing a bra while off duty. in the clothes that I wear, you can't see my nipple or even the color of my nipple nor do I wear revealing or low cut shirts. At the most, you can just see that I am simply not wearing one. Nowhere in any reg does it say it’s required not even in uniform. Can she tell me to do so?
Civilians
DA Pam 670-1
Women in the Military
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 404
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Here is my opinion just like everyone else who spoke theirs. Yes the military can regulate your civilian attire. I worked at CIF and had to become very attuned to regulations that cover clothing and military gear. Just as stated wearing civilian attire is a privilege it isn’t a right. In today’s me too society it can be harmful to the good and order of military discipline you going without a bra. Just as stated men are weak we will notice and stare. That can be perceived as sexual harassment. With sexual harassment and sexual assault on the rise in the military you may were asked to wear one because someone said something Inappropriate or complained. If it was noticed by males it was definitely noticed by other female soldiers. Order and discipline is what comes to mind. The ranking female platoon SGT should have converse with you her concerns. I advise follow up with her and do not disregard what was advised to you.
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Regardless of Chain of Command it is totally inappropriate for this 2 party discussion to have been carried on in your absence. Were it an issue of *personal hygiene, or *conduct unbecoming, or *distraction / offence it might have been a different matter. Both the disparity in genders, & the discussed topic were questionable.
I do have 1 Question: Do the Armed Forces issue women's brasiers? As a guy, I know we received an initial issue of T Shirt & Underpants, as well as Wool Socks. Yes, MANY of us guys are guilty (mea culpa) of "doing our own thing:" on the Under pants matter, & even wearing nonReg socks under our boots.
Were I the PSG, I would have broached the topic privately with you in the company of another female PSG, or The Unit Chaplain / Chaplain's Asst. It's too *personal a matter.
I do have 1 Question: Do the Armed Forces issue women's brasiers? As a guy, I know we received an initial issue of T Shirt & Underpants, as well as Wool Socks. Yes, MANY of us guys are guilty (mea culpa) of "doing our own thing:" on the Under pants matter, & even wearing nonReg socks under our boots.
Were I the PSG, I would have broached the topic privately with you in the company of another female PSG, or The Unit Chaplain / Chaplain's Asst. It's too *personal a matter.
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SGT (Join to see)
In regards to the army issuing bras, I can't say on the initial clothing issue at basic training. However, as far as ordering uniform items for Soldiers in Kyloc, the army doesn't issue bras, underwear (for either gender) or white socks for the PT uniform. It's been a long time since I ordered clothing items in ADO, but if I remember correctly, females had the option of being issued a tan sports bra for the ACU-UCP.
While I haven't personally seen it, I've heard of Soldiers being counseled for wearing unauthorized socks under their boots.
While I haven't personally seen it, I've heard of Soldiers being counseled for wearing unauthorized socks under their boots.
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SSG Robert Webster
SGT (Join to see) - I suggest that you go back and peruse the regulations again. Women/female soldiers are given specifications of what they are supposed tol have and are given a cash allowance to purchase said items at the beginning of their service, there are also told the quantity of items that they must purchase and have on hand. If you as an NCO has had to do a personal clothing inspection and do not know this how are you able to properly administer your responsibilities as an NCO to any soldier. Does not a male soldier have to have in their possession a set number of appropriate undergarments be they boxers or briefs?
See CTA 50-900 and AR 700-84. As a Medical Logistics Specialist I am sure that you should be familiar with both.
Extract from AR 700-84 (similar to item in CTA 50-900):
f. Undergarments. Female undergarments are a one-time cash purchase as part of the initial clothing allowance for females. Unit commanders must afford female Soldiers the opportunity to purchase these items.
As to quantity where it states 7 sets of drawers for men, I find it states 3 sets for females.
For female prisoners - Undergarments for female personnel are not stocked in the supply system; therefore the purchases of these garments will be charged to OMA funds.
See CTA 50-900 and AR 700-84. As a Medical Logistics Specialist I am sure that you should be familiar with both.
Extract from AR 700-84 (similar to item in CTA 50-900):
f. Undergarments. Female undergarments are a one-time cash purchase as part of the initial clothing allowance for females. Unit commanders must afford female Soldiers the opportunity to purchase these items.
As to quantity where it states 7 sets of drawers for men, I find it states 3 sets for females.
For female prisoners - Undergarments for female personnel are not stocked in the supply system; therefore the purchases of these garments will be charged to OMA funds.
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG Robert Webster - I'm aware of the quantity requirements for undergarments, that wasn't my point. CPL Elinger asked whether the military issued bras to female Soldiers, not whether female Soldiers are required to have bras as part of their clothing items. I was making a distinction between getting a cash allowance to buy the items themselves at the local PX/shoppette versus being issued the item directly. At no point did I say female Soldiers aren't required to have underwear or bras as part of their clothing issue.
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SSG Robert Webster
SGT (Join to see) - That is the point - they (females) are given money/cash to purchase said required items at initial entry in lieu of the actual issue of said items. i.e. Instead of the items being issued, they are given money and taken to the exchange/clothing sales to purchase said required items.
And that is what is stated in the regulation and CTA.
And as to your assertion that the Army does not issue undergarments to either gender is also incorrect; as stated in the exact same references that I quoted from.
You also contradict what you are trying to assert when you stated - "but if I remember correctly, females had the option of being issued a tan sports bra for the ACU-UCP."
And that is what is stated in the regulation and CTA.
And as to your assertion that the Army does not issue undergarments to either gender is also incorrect; as stated in the exact same references that I quoted from.
You also contradict what you are trying to assert when you stated - "but if I remember correctly, females had the option of being issued a tan sports bra for the ACU-UCP."
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I would leave that up to the individual, since it is a personal choice at that point. I would look up the regulation since it probably specifies appropriate attire for certain occasions.
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SGT (Join to see)
What about when a Soldier's choice in civilian clothing affects others? SPC Bolden has no issue being braless in civilian clothes, but clearly one or more individuals (military and/or civilian?) are uncomfortable with her appearance.
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Sgt James Gross
The next step is go up the chain of command, if others are uncomfortable with her choice they should say why and work from there.
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SGT (Join to see)
Sgt James Gross - What choice wins (or should win) in this scenario do you think? SPC Bolden doesn't think she's out of line for being braless in civilian clothes while one or more individuals think otherwise. Do you think the company Commander should have the final say in the matter?
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Sgt James Gross
It might help clarify things if he did, I also think she would be better off following the rules set down in order to avoid further controversy over her choice of attire. I think it is a common sense approach to just adhere to the rules after thinking it over. Thank you for your input Sgt. Joel Kurtzhals.
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I would pose this question to your Superior or JAG if the answer is unclear in the dress code regulations on that subject..
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Short answer, no. Maybe times have changed, but when you're in civvies, you're pretty much off-duty. Unless you're in a city or village where your garments are considered offensive, there's really no reason as to why you should micro-manage your soldier's apparel when not in the shop.
Still, defying orders on the spot is always a bad idea. I'd advise asking the sergeant why this is. The reason might be a very good one, but I'm inclined to believe it's a very bad one. If it IS a bad one, take it up the chain of command.
Still, defying orders on the spot is always a bad idea. I'd advise asking the sergeant why this is. The reason might be a very good one, but I'm inclined to believe it's a very bad one. If it IS a bad one, take it up the chain of command.
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this is one of the reasons I joined the Air Force, your off-duty time is yours and whatever you wish to wear is up to you... in the army, everything is controlled by higher ups, you cant even take off for the weekend without signing off of base, where we could whatever we wanted on weekends
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SGT (Join to see)
In regards to the army, I think what you say holds true more for the active duty component then for the other components. In the reserves, there isn't that level of micromanagement that I experienced on active duty in part because everyone in the reserves has a civilian life to return to at the end of a BA or AT.
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MSgt Kerry Lundy
I am retired USAF and I was required to comply with SOFA while stationed in a foreign country even in Vietnam. Every base I was ever stationed on also policies pertaining to conduct in the civilian communities. I retired in 1986 so maybe things such as dress and appearance as well as conduct in the civilian community has changed since then. Even today I double check my appearance before visiting a military installation.
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