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So, my Senior NCO asked me today if he could borrow my car so he can take a trip to visit family (about 2.5 hours away). He said his truck needs a transmission flush and doesn’t trust his truck will make it. He is leaving his truck for me to use. However, I insisted I don’t feel comfortable driving a pick up as I have only ever driven SUVs, but he keeps “pressuring” me to allow him to use my car. I feel like there’s maybe some abuse of power here, even if there isn’t I feel like this is wrong. Can someone shed light for me?
Enlisted
Fort Campbell
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 16
Your SNCO can ask.....and you have every right to say NO. If, for whatever reason the SNCO (I am guessing it's your Platoon Sergeant) will NOT stop asking, you need to elevate this to your Platoon Leader. If it just needs a flush, then your SNCO can get it flushed and use his own damn truck for that drive.
Also, there is NO regulation stating you are required to allow the SNCO to use your vehicle.
Also, there is NO regulation stating you are required to allow the SNCO to use your vehicle.
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SGM Jeff Mccloud
Asking a subordinate once is not technically wrong, but is still wrong. He should ask his
peers and only his peers.
Asking after you said no is contrary to the NCO Creed, ch 4-14 of AR 600-20, and probably a half dozen other pubs.
peers and only his peers.
Asking after you said no is contrary to the NCO Creed, ch 4-14 of AR 600-20, and probably a half dozen other pubs.
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Yes, prohibited ...
AR 600-20, para 4-14 (1), (2), (3), (4) apply.
And if I were to have seen that, educated the NCO, and they continued. The commander and I would work with the BN and BDE CSM's and Commanders to rid the Army of the NCO forever.
b. Soldiers of different grades must be cognizant that their interactions do not create an actual or clearly predictable perception of undue familiarity between an officer and an enlisted Soldier, or between an NCO and a junior enlisted Soldier. Examples of familiarity between Soldiers that may become “undue” can include repeated visits to bars, nightclubs, eating establishments, or homes between an officer and an enlisted Soldier, or an NCO and a junior enlisted Soldier, except for social gatherings, that involve an entire unit, office, or work section. All relationships between Soldiers of different grades are prohibited if they—
(1) Compromise, or appear to compromise, the integrity of supervisory authority or the chain of command.
(2) Cause actual or perceived partiality or unfairness.
(3) Involve, or appear to involve, the improper use of grade or rank or position for personal gain.
(4) Are, or are perceived to be, exploitative or coercive in nature.
(5) Create an actual or clearly predictable adverse impact on discipline, authority, morale, or the ability of the
command to accomplish its mission
AR 600-20, para 4-14 (1), (2), (3), (4) apply.
And if I were to have seen that, educated the NCO, and they continued. The commander and I would work with the BN and BDE CSM's and Commanders to rid the Army of the NCO forever.
b. Soldiers of different grades must be cognizant that their interactions do not create an actual or clearly predictable perception of undue familiarity between an officer and an enlisted Soldier, or between an NCO and a junior enlisted Soldier. Examples of familiarity between Soldiers that may become “undue” can include repeated visits to bars, nightclubs, eating establishments, or homes between an officer and an enlisted Soldier, or an NCO and a junior enlisted Soldier, except for social gatherings, that involve an entire unit, office, or work section. All relationships between Soldiers of different grades are prohibited if they—
(1) Compromise, or appear to compromise, the integrity of supervisory authority or the chain of command.
(2) Cause actual or perceived partiality or unfairness.
(3) Involve, or appear to involve, the improper use of grade or rank or position for personal gain.
(4) Are, or are perceived to be, exploitative or coercive in nature.
(5) Create an actual or clearly predictable adverse impact on discipline, authority, morale, or the ability of the
command to accomplish its mission
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SSG Elbert Thomas
Well SGM, it's the "new" Army we are all friends. Don't want to make anyone feel bad by having some one out rank you. /s
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SSG Elbert Thomas
Well, in case you didn't know it the /s means sarcasm, as Rodney King asked "Can't we all just all get along?"
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It is definitely in poor taste but sure he can ask. You can certainly say no. You have absolutely no obligation to let anyone borrow your personal vehicle and if it becomes an issue you should take it to your next leader in line. . Personally I wouldn't lend it to anyone in your Command unless you have a close personal connection and even then that is a big maybe. But lending it to a boss is a no for me.
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SSG Elbert Thomas
I would never lend your POV to anyone, most likely they won't be covered by your insurance.
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Yes, this is an abuse of power - at least as you have relayed it.
Asking ONCE is not technically forbidden, even if unwise. Pressuring is definitely forbidden.
Is there NO ONE between this SNCO and you? He should be asking a senior, peers, or at MOST one echelon down.
Asking ONCE is not technically forbidden, even if unwise. Pressuring is definitely forbidden.
Is there NO ONE between this SNCO and you? He should be asking a senior, peers, or at MOST one echelon down.
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Suspended Profile
SPC (Join to see), trust your initial instincts. There are several potential issues here and SGM Erik Marquez hit on some key prohibitions. For me, this is not about camaraderie and I feel there are clear practical and ethical considerations. Do not feel obligated, pressured, or influenced to comply because of the difference in rank. Doing personal favors (rather than job-related) for an NCO blurs the lines of professionalism and may easily be viewed by others as unprofessional behavior (a violation of a professional relationship between NCOs and junior soldiers). Lastly, never be put into a situation where a superior or senior can potentially become financially indebted to you (e.g. your vehicle breaks down or is in an accident while the NCO is using it) or you become indebted to a superior/senior (his/her vehicle breaks down or involved in an accident while you are using it). This is how I think about it and would discuss it with your NCO.
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Thank you all for your responses, I told him “Respectfully SFC, I don’t feel comfortable with this “exchange” of vehicles”. Shockingly he was understanding, I’m just curious as to why he didn’t say that to begin with.
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SGM William Everroad
SPC (Join to see) It's human nature. We operate within our own perception of the world around us until we encounter barriers. Then we either go around or break through. Luckily, your NCO chose to go around.
This is because the NCO didn't see anything wrong with it, they understand regulatory guidance and the NCO creed, but apparently do not live it. These principles can get moved to the back of the worldview. You reminded them, maybe faintly, of their duty as an NCO and they responded accordingly. Their perceptive came back into sharp focus. Only time will tell if duty fades into the background for this NCO.
This is not an indictment of the NCO, at least based on the information provided, but rather the Leader Development regimen in your unit. These principles need to be ingrained in leader development frequently, intensely, and ad nauseam. That is how we develop a profession of arms.
This is because the NCO didn't see anything wrong with it, they understand regulatory guidance and the NCO creed, but apparently do not live it. These principles can get moved to the back of the worldview. You reminded them, maybe faintly, of their duty as an NCO and they responded accordingly. Their perceptive came back into sharp focus. Only time will tell if duty fades into the background for this NCO.
This is not an indictment of the NCO, at least based on the information provided, but rather the Leader Development regimen in your unit. These principles need to be ingrained in leader development frequently, intensely, and ad nauseam. That is how we develop a profession of arms.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM William Everroad -over 27 years I found Leadership traits in subordinates commonly, directly reflect leadership traits demonstrated daily by the senior leaders.
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If he needs a vehicle that badly he can go rent one. I can't believe a Senior NCO would ask to borrow a vehicle from one of their troops. Follow the advice that has already been given to you.
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I concur with SGM MARQUEZ. The SNCO is wrong on every level. 1. Abuse of subordinate by requesting a favor wherein the subordinate COULD reasonably feel that there could be retribution or quid pro quo no matter what the answer. 2. Hostile work environment. The SPC will be uncomfortable around the SNCO indefinitely no matter what happens. Should he report the SNCO, he risks the retribution of the NCO friends of his SNCO. It is unethical and just plain wrong to put any subordinate in such a position. 3. If SPC Padula felt comfortable in loaning the SUV to his SNCO, fraternazation and favoritism could be implied by others in the unit. There are units which are truly a band of brothers and such a request would not be necessary as the SPC or another NCO might have just offered better transportation, this does not appear to be the case. 5. If the pickup truck was ok for the SPC to drive while the SNCO was driving his, it was ok for the SNCO to make the trip. The SNCO has at least one too many stripes and/or rockers. The next higher NCO than him needs to either pay more attention to his JNCO's and mentor better. If mentoring does not work, do what NCO's do and handle it. I got where I got because of a series of professional NCO's (and officers) who cared enough to coach me and senior officers who cared enough to let them. When the NCO chain works so does everything else. When it does not, nothing else will either.
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It's so sad that this senior NCO does not understand right from wrong. I'm so sorry that you are having to endure being treated this way.
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Being a "Senior NCO" he can afford to rent a car and use his Military discount.
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