Posted on Jul 22, 2016
Can a SGT be pinned SSG without ALC if in the IDES process?
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(EDIT 2: I've gotten great feedback (mostly) and have addressed the issue with my chain of command and HRC. I knew I would retire/separate at the promotion list grade if my MEB results in discharge, but what I found out is that being in the IDES process "holds my spot." If I am retained, I can then go to ALC and will be promoted upon completion. My main concern was that if I AM retained, I would miss that chance, but HRC has confirmed that I will be given the opportunity to attend the school and pin the rank if I'm not separated/retired. Thanks to most everyone for the great feedback and support. I'm officially un-following this thread, so I'll probably miss any further responses.)
(EDIT: Yes, it's about me. Also, I'm not looking for loopholes, I'm not whining about an unfair system, I'm not griping over what I feel is owed to me, I'm just trying to understand the letter of the law to determine if it's worth further effort or if I should just go to my VA exams, take my rating, and call it a day. Please keep the hooah hooah suck it up rhetoric to a minimum, I'm genuinely just trying to get meaningful advice :) )
Scenario: a solider makes cutoff for promotion to E6, but does not show up on the by-name list and is told it's because they have not been to ALC. Said soldier has been in the IDES/MEB/PEB process pending VA exams and ratings to determine if a medical separation/retirement is to occur and therefore cannot attend ALC. I have scoured the MILPER messages and AR 600-8-19. According to AR 600-8-19, the only requirement for promotion to SSG is completion of WLC/BLC, but the MILPER and the new STEP system says ALC is a requirement. The regulation states that IDES exempts the soldier from requirements such as weapons, APFT, and SRR, but not a word is spoken about ALC.
I do realize that if the soldier is promotable at the time of separation/retirement, they will be compensated and separated/retired at the promotion list grade. That's something, at least, but it's kinda crappy in my opinion that they get denied the promotion otherwise for something that may be no fault of their own.
I feel a combat-related injury that initiates an MEB/PEB shouldn't keep a soldier from getting pinned to a rank they've earned, not because they have chosen not to go to ALC, not because they have failed ALC, but because their injury has prevented it. I understand the reasoning, not filling a slot with a soldier that will otherwise not be able to serve the position or is going to potentially separate shortly afterwards, but if there's no concession or exception it feels like the soldier is being punished for shedding blood for their country.
(EDIT: Yes, it's about me. Also, I'm not looking for loopholes, I'm not whining about an unfair system, I'm not griping over what I feel is owed to me, I'm just trying to understand the letter of the law to determine if it's worth further effort or if I should just go to my VA exams, take my rating, and call it a day. Please keep the hooah hooah suck it up rhetoric to a minimum, I'm genuinely just trying to get meaningful advice :) )
Scenario: a solider makes cutoff for promotion to E6, but does not show up on the by-name list and is told it's because they have not been to ALC. Said soldier has been in the IDES/MEB/PEB process pending VA exams and ratings to determine if a medical separation/retirement is to occur and therefore cannot attend ALC. I have scoured the MILPER messages and AR 600-8-19. According to AR 600-8-19, the only requirement for promotion to SSG is completion of WLC/BLC, but the MILPER and the new STEP system says ALC is a requirement. The regulation states that IDES exempts the soldier from requirements such as weapons, APFT, and SRR, but not a word is spoken about ALC.
I do realize that if the soldier is promotable at the time of separation/retirement, they will be compensated and separated/retired at the promotion list grade. That's something, at least, but it's kinda crappy in my opinion that they get denied the promotion otherwise for something that may be no fault of their own.
I feel a combat-related injury that initiates an MEB/PEB shouldn't keep a soldier from getting pinned to a rank they've earned, not because they have chosen not to go to ALC, not because they have failed ALC, but because their injury has prevented it. I understand the reasoning, not filling a slot with a soldier that will otherwise not be able to serve the position or is going to potentially separate shortly afterwards, but if there's no concession or exception it feels like the soldier is being punished for shedding blood for their country.
Promotions
SSG
SGT
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 24
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Not in the new promotion program. The NCOES schools are required for promotion
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SSG Jim Beverly
Yeah that's the answer I keep coming to. It just sucks that I don't have the chance to attend the school because of my MEB. Ah well, I'll still retire a SSG in the end :)
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SSG Jim Beverly
Thank you, sergeant. I admit I was a bit hesitant to post this question, I didn't want to wade through a wall of "too bad, suck it up, those are the rules" comments. I'm happy to say I have gotten nothing but support, honesty, and the meaningful advice I'd hoped for.
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If you made cutoff and meet the requirements to maintain SGT, then yes. But I will be honest, I'm using knowledge that is about a year old and did not research it.
You can not make the next rank if you have not completed the requirements for the current rank.
Also, even if I'm wrong, if your promotable and are medically retired, you should be retired at that rank (meaning SSG in your case).
But I would validate this with your case worker but I'm nearly certain I'm correct.
You can not make the next rank if you have not completed the requirements for the current rank.
Also, even if I'm wrong, if your promotable and are medically retired, you should be retired at that rank (meaning SSG in your case).
But I would validate this with your case worker but I'm nearly certain I'm correct.
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SSG (Join to see)
You owe the Army 1 year from the day you pin SSG. Do you have a year left in the military?
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SSG Jason Trammell
You are correct, I was medically retired due to injuries sustained 3 yrs before retirement, I was promotable to SSG and that's what I was retired as.
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SSG Jason Trammell
SSG Jim Beverly - SGT if you are in the process of MEB/PEB you will not be pinned, I was in ur same situation, I wished I had a better answer. I was in a non- deployable job in the WTU as Transportation NCOIC, with only 5yrs till I made 20. Instead of letting me continue in my current job I was replaced by a deployable soldier and forced to Retire. I was promotable for 3yrs but couldn't take APPT, or be recommended for any schools. I was would accept my fate and keep my head up, accept ur condition promotion when u get out, as I did.
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SSG Kim Wilson
When I had my MEB, because I was on the C10 roster, I got my E6 before I was discharged.
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I medically retired three years ago; keep in mind, this may have changed, but what we were told, and I saw happen, was that if you were promotable during the process, and you are medically retired, you will be medically retired at the next higher grade. Meaning SGT(P) retires as a SSG ect.
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With the implementation of STEP the only way i could see you pinning is if your board was held prior to 1 January 2016. Saw this happen with a Soldier, promoted to E7 without SLC, upon further verification turned out because the board concluded Sept 2015 he was grandfathered in.
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1LT (Join to see)
I dont see for any reason why semi-centralized wouldnt be grandfathered in but centralized would. But thats Army for you.
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SSG Raymond Minze
It's been like that for decades, the semi-centralized system as been around since post Viet-Nam for selection and promotion to E5 and E6. Centralized system is used for selection and promotion of Senior NCOs, E7-E9. When I was promoted to SSG/E6, I had not attended BNOC (then the equivalent of BLC), though when I did go; as a SSG, I was eligible for SFC in the secondary zone. Before I could be eligible promotion I had to attend BNOC; ten months later, I was selected to attend ANOC in the secondary zone. Two years had to pass before I could go ANOC because at the time the selection boards had been delayed due to the Gulf War, Desert Shield and Desert Storm; the selection board was for a 18 month instead of a 12 month list.
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SSG (Join to see)
With the implementation of STEP, regardless of board date, you must have NCOPDS requirement of ALC before being considered fully eligable for promotion consideration. I was boarded last year but had to wait for ALC due to STEP.
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1LT (Join to see)
So is it different for semi-centralized then? My last ops sergeant called me to let me know of an E6 that received promotion orders to E7 but the Soldier does not have SLC. He was borded in Sept 2015. How could the standard change between semi-centralized and centralized? STEP is STEP regardless of rank.
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I am in a situation similar to this. I am medically retiring soon. My question is on my ERB it shows I am promotable to SSG. I checked the cutoff points and I would have made the cut off last mont and this month. The problem is I can’t attend ALC because of my injuries. Will I be able to retire as a SSG or my current rank which is SGT? Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
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I went to PLDC and upon graduation was asked if I had any interest in DSS. I entered DSS and was promoted to Sgt halfway through. We needed an e-6 and I was given stripes and served as an active ssg. I left service before going to school.
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The new regulations says you have to finished ALC and SSD2 in order to get pinned. You can be selected but not pinned.
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You have already answered you own question. The issue here is its not the answer you wanted to hear. You do know the rank and position is to fill the Army needs more then your desires. You, at this point cannot give the Army what it needs so you are being passed over for some one that can.
I know its upsetting and seems unfair to you but its the needs of the Army being fulfilled.
I know its upsetting and seems unfair to you but its the needs of the Army being fulfilled.
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SSG Jim Beverly
Based on your answer, I think you might have missed the nature of what I was asking, but I appreciate your response. It's been resolved, to a conclusion I was happy with, and the feedback I've gotten here has been mostly helpful.
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