Posted on Feb 27, 2023
Can Active Guard Reserve (AGR) and TPU (Reservists) be senior rated against each other?
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I am being evaluated against five other SSGs in my unit. I am AGR (Full-time Reservist), while the other five are TPU (Part-time Reservists). Is there any rule against rating TPUs and AGR NCOs together? I'm trying to find out because it doesn't seem appropriate to rate someone who works full-time every day, while the other NCOs are only part-time, which means that the workload for myself and the TPU reservists is vastly different. I looked in AR 623-3 (Evaluation Reporting System), but couldn't find anything in there. Any help is greatly appreciated. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL Lt Col Charlie Brown LTC (Join to see) CSM Mike Maynard SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SSG (Join to see) MSG (Join to see)
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Edited 2 y ago
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 10
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SSG(P) (Join to see), you are being rated against your contemporaries for potential by your Senior Rater. Your rater only rates your performance. What your rating chain is doing is appropriate.
NCOs aren't really part-time in the truest sense of the word. A TPU SSG/SFC must accomplish all of the requirements for their Leadership position in 2 days. This requires pre-planning and work outside of UTAs, including those pesky conference calls. They must maintain contact with their assigned Soldiers, many who really don't want to be bothered during the month for the BN/BDEs' last minute takers. This is on top of self-development tasks. TPU Soldiers, especially SSG and SFCs are notorious for horrible work-life balance, thats why we have a leadership gap at that grade. They are choosing to grab 20 and go.
If you have true "part-time NCOs", you have a marginal 1SG/CDR. There is a happy balance between giving time away for free and having a TPU NCO working constantly in a reserve unit.
As you indicated to CPT Lawrence Cable, your rating scheme is appropriate. As a Plans NCOIC you should be rated by the Plans Officer (CPT) and Senior rated by the S-3 (MAJ) who also senior rates all the SSGs in the S3. My guess is that you have maybe 3 other SSG AGRs in your BN HQ (unless you count the subordinate units), none of which are senior rated by the S3 OIC.
Even if you could manage to be compared against the other SSG AGRs, would you really want to have your potential for positions of greater responsibility and future operational assignments compared to supply, medical or personnel folks? A TPU SSG in FUOPs is likely to never be an AGR OPS NCO, so I would agree with LTC (Join to see), if you are not marginal compared to your peers, you come out ahead every time. Unless you are suggesting that a TPU SSG is not your peer, in which case this would be a different conversation.
NCOs aren't really part-time in the truest sense of the word. A TPU SSG/SFC must accomplish all of the requirements for their Leadership position in 2 days. This requires pre-planning and work outside of UTAs, including those pesky conference calls. They must maintain contact with their assigned Soldiers, many who really don't want to be bothered during the month for the BN/BDEs' last minute takers. This is on top of self-development tasks. TPU Soldiers, especially SSG and SFCs are notorious for horrible work-life balance, thats why we have a leadership gap at that grade. They are choosing to grab 20 and go.
If you have true "part-time NCOs", you have a marginal 1SG/CDR. There is a happy balance between giving time away for free and having a TPU NCO working constantly in a reserve unit.
As you indicated to CPT Lawrence Cable, your rating scheme is appropriate. As a Plans NCOIC you should be rated by the Plans Officer (CPT) and Senior rated by the S-3 (MAJ) who also senior rates all the SSGs in the S3. My guess is that you have maybe 3 other SSG AGRs in your BN HQ (unless you count the subordinate units), none of which are senior rated by the S3 OIC.
Even if you could manage to be compared against the other SSG AGRs, would you really want to have your potential for positions of greater responsibility and future operational assignments compared to supply, medical or personnel folks? A TPU SSG in FUOPs is likely to never be an AGR OPS NCO, so I would agree with LTC (Join to see), if you are not marginal compared to your peers, you come out ahead every time. Unless you are suggesting that a TPU SSG is not your peer, in which case this would be a different conversation.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
CSM William Everroad I am rated the way you described with the Plans Officer (CPT) being my rater, and the S-3 (MAJ) being my senior rater. I was asking because out of the 6 SSGs my Senior Rater rates, I am the only AGR, but despite that I bust my butt full-time, I'm rated 3 of 6, only getting senior rated as "Qualified", which upsets me because I know I'm better than just "Qualified", and despite asking on multiple occasions to be counseled to see what I can do to achieve the highest possible rating, I have only been counseled once since being in my current position, and I've been in this position for over 2 years now.
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MAJ Byron Oyler
SSG(P) (Join to see) - I am going to be blunt here, it seems you are more upset being rated 3/6 and feel because of your status you should be looked at differently. I doubt this would be a question if you were number one. Need to stop focusing on your AGR status and ask yourself, why am I number three? Ask your rater what you need to do to be number one.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
MAJ Byron Oyler I have sir and no I would still question them rating myself vs TPUs and vice versa even if I was #1 because I don't think it's fair to the TPU NCOs either. I've asked on many occasions to be counseled, and to date, I have been counseled once in over 2 years of being in this unit.
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CSM William Everroad
SSG(P) (Join to see) - That's a problem for the Senior Rater to address. Part of their responsibilities is to counsel you at least twice during the rating period. If you are not being given good direction on how to achieve your goals and get the rating you want, take it to the 1SG/CSM, they provide guidance to raters and senior raters.
But at the end of the day, take a look at the two NCOs that are being rated higher than you. Like MAJ Byron Oyler suggested, they might deserve the rating.
But at the end of the day, take a look at the two NCOs that are being rated higher than you. Like MAJ Byron Oyler suggested, they might deserve the rating.
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Who's chain of command do you belong? AGR's in my unit got EER's from either the First Sergeant or myself as Rater or Senior rater. If you are occupying a line item position in a line unit, you should be rated by you COC in the unit, whether you are full time or not.
Since your position is generally support for the unit and the part timers, how those soldiers view your performance is just as important as whether the full time staff thinks your wonderful or not.
Since your position is generally support for the unit and the part timers, how those soldiers view your performance is just as important as whether the full time staff thinks your wonderful or not.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
I'm being rated by a CPT and senior rated by a MAJ in the S3, as that is the section I am in CPT Lawrence Cable.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
SSG(P) (Join to see) - You seem to be concerned about the ratings on the EER, but the standards are the same for full time and part time. I've had a couple that I didn't agree with the rater, I had a rater give me a meets the standard for a 297 APFT score. You can always dispute it and give your reasons why. It may not change the rater or senior raters mind, but your concerns are on record.
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Absolutely. You are being rated and senior rated not AC, AGR, TPU, IMA, etc against each other but against all of your peers of the same grade for the duration of that rater and senior rater’s career. Unlike other services that rate you by year our profiles are built over our careers. Some raters and senior raters are biased, some pool though it’s against the regulations (yes I said it), but others do the right thing and are fair. Unfortunately not everyone who deserves the top box will receive it based on population, quality of peers, or poor profile management.
I see your argument and I have seem AGRs argue that they should be rated by all AGRs as TPUs do not know what they do on a daily basis. It’s unrealistic as soon as you get away from a company or go up in rank a little your chain would be at another unit and unable to see you on a daily basis as well. That is why you do your support form. It’s supposed to be a conversation with rated, rater, and senior rater. Does that always happen? No. But write your support form as you know best of what you did. You cannot control what your peers do. You can only control what you do and quality of work.
Do your best, work with your chain of command, control what you can.
I see your argument and I have seem AGRs argue that they should be rated by all AGRs as TPUs do not know what they do on a daily basis. It’s unrealistic as soon as you get away from a company or go up in rank a little your chain would be at another unit and unable to see you on a daily basis as well. That is why you do your support form. It’s supposed to be a conversation with rated, rater, and senior rater. Does that always happen? No. But write your support form as you know best of what you did. You cannot control what your peers do. You can only control what you do and quality of work.
Do your best, work with your chain of command, control what you can.
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