3
3
0
Just got word from my smoke that my BN CDR and CSM are pushing to remove my airborne status and send me to a non Airborne unit. This is because I’ve been on profile for my knee for the past 10 months, yet I have been still jumping and taking PT tests, etc. Do they have the authority to take it away even if I’m unwilling and technically not medically terminated?
Posted in these groups: 
XVIII ABN Corps
82nd ABN
XVIII ABN Corps 82nd ABN
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 13
8
8
0
Your Battalion leadership cannot take away your Airborne identifier. You can request to have it removed, or you can be found medically unfit to keep it. A temporary profile is not enough to remove you from Airborne status permanently. You would need a permanent profile that prohibits you from Airborne operations. The other option to remove it is that you must request to have it removed on a 4187. No one can make that request for you, at least not for being on a temporary profile.
(8)
(0)
CPL (Join to see)
Do you have any regulation references? I looked on AR 600-8-22 but I wasn’t able to find anything specifying the exact terms which it can be removed and by whom.
(0)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
CPL (Join to see) usually I would applaud your request for a reference, but there's no reference for things that you can't do. The only thing you can find is how it's removed, which is voluntarily. I can't remember the reference now, but it was discussed in another RP post under "How long do I have to jump?" or something similar. The reference was posted there.
To sum it up, you have to voluntarily request to have your identifier removed. Also, it can be removed if you're physically unable to jump for medical reasons. I have never seen any other way, and I've seen plenty of 1SGs who told their guys there was no way they were staying Airborne.
To sum it up, you have to voluntarily request to have your identifier removed. Also, it can be removed if you're physically unable to jump for medical reasons. I have never seen any other way, and I've seen plenty of 1SGs who told their guys there was no way they were staying Airborne.
(1)
(0)
4
4
0
3
3
0
That doesn’t make sense. I understand that you’re on a profile but if you’re still meeting the requirements to maintain your status. Either way HRC is the only ones that can remove the SQI “P” from your records. If that is the commands intent they will need to provide some justification.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
I honestly don't think they can take away your status as long as you are meeting the requirements to maintain it. SGM Erik Marquez / SSG(P) James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" , do you have any insight into this situation?
(3)
(0)
CPL (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez And it’s understable what you’ve described. I’ve had the PA tell me one thing and then tell my 1SG the complete opposite. Another thing I just found out today is they were looking at an expired profile from when it first happened that said no deploying/airborne ops and not the current one for the past 2 months that only limits running. At the end of they day it’s going to be the decision of the BN CDR, and the vouching of my seniors to hopefully sort it out.
(1)
(0)
SGM Erik Marquez
CPL (Join to see) - The fact you read, understood not just the words but the thoughts behind them as information, not an attack.... Your reasoned response that included even more information to help us better understand the situation leads me to believe you are doing this right, have the best intentions, and are looking for a solution that helps not just you but supports the unit.
Ask your PSG if you can have a a few minutes of your 1SG time....He (or she) is the person that can shut this down in the BN training meeting if he is worthy of being in the position anyway. Soldier issues are his to deal with, his BN CSM and CDR know that...if he is good, his word is the gold standard... BN MEDO , XO or whoever reads off the list of "Have to go" SM and that 1SG should be able to speak up and correct the info on the spot, support his trooper who he and the CO feel is a unit asset, and the Bn CSM will likely tell the briefer either "Unscrew yourself and get the right data to the CDR" or if its a uncommon that the list is outdated, wrong, confusing, they will just tell the briefer to get with the 1SG afterwards and fix the issue.
Ask your PSG if you can have a a few minutes of your 1SG time....He (or she) is the person that can shut this down in the BN training meeting if he is worthy of being in the position anyway. Soldier issues are his to deal with, his BN CSM and CDR know that...if he is good, his word is the gold standard... BN MEDO , XO or whoever reads off the list of "Have to go" SM and that 1SG should be able to speak up and correct the info on the spot, support his trooper who he and the CO feel is a unit asset, and the Bn CSM will likely tell the briefer either "Unscrew yourself and get the right data to the CDR" or if its a uncommon that the list is outdated, wrong, confusing, they will just tell the briefer to get with the 1SG afterwards and fix the issue.
(2)
(0)
CW3 (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez You said earlier "I can say this with some certainty neither of them have the free time to spare dealing with a young E4 at the company level.".... You would be surprised at how wrong you can be with that statement.
I remember a young SPC (Reserve/TPU) who lived in Fairfax Station in Fairfax County VA, and drilled with a unit in Baltimore. He wanted to try to transfer to the unit I was in, at Fort Belvoir VA. His *battalion* commander and CSM required a packet to go up to their level to approve a DA 4651 to transfer units.
I remember a young SPC (Reserve/TPU) who lived in Fairfax Station in Fairfax County VA, and drilled with a unit in Baltimore. He wanted to try to transfer to the unit I was in, at Fort Belvoir VA. His *battalion* commander and CSM required a packet to go up to their level to approve a DA 4651 to transfer units.
(0)
(0)
SGM Erik Marquez
CW3 (Join to see) - Chief, sure some are that micromanaging, most are not, and none of the good ones are.
And I was speaking about my 28 years in AD, Guard or reserve I have no idea about and it would not surprise me at all if part time and largely disconnected leaders (thats not a slight, just is due to the situation time and distance) are often forced by situation to micromanage
And I was speaking about my 28 years in AD, Guard or reserve I have no idea about and it would not surprise me at all if part time and largely disconnected leaders (thats not a slight, just is due to the situation time and distance) are often forced by situation to micromanage
(0)
(0)
1
1
0
*Update* After my 1SG taking my actual profile saying I am able to do airborne ops and have no deploying limiting conditions and the vouching of my CMD team I’ve been told to not worry about it. I appreciate everyone’s responses!
(1)
(0)
0
0
0
I work in Robinson and see your situation frequently - I assume you’ve been through PT, all the imaging, ortho etc? You would have to fail a fit for duty exam, at which point they’d likely start pushing for MEB. I could be wrong, but I believe that decision would have to come from your brigade providers.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
Cpl,
The easy answer is yes, your command can move you to a non-airborne unit.
AR 40–501 • 14 December 2007
5–5. Medical fitness standards for retention for Airborne duty, Ranger duty, and Special Forces duty
Retention of an individual in Airborne duty, Ranger duty, and Special Forces duty will be based on—
a. His or her continued demonstrated ability to perform satisfactorily his or her duty as an Airborne officer or enlisted Soldier, Ranger, or Special Forces member.
b. The effect upon the individual’s health and well-being by remaining on Airborne, Ranger, or Special Forces duty
Your commander can say your knee being under protective medical status (profile) demonstrates you are not fit for retention in an airborne position. Are you running? Has your run score dropped? When you finish a run do you require medical care, brace, Motrin etc. Its subjective by your commander.
Part b. is the killer paragraph, "The effect upon the individual’s health and well-being by remaining on Airborne duty" if the Commander feels continuing to jump will have a negative affect on your knee he/she can have you reassigned.
I used this regulation to convince my commander to reassign a soldier to a desk in the S-1 pending a physical because we suspected he had a medical condition. Just suspected. Later we found he had a heart condition during a stress test and he was chaptered.
Your commander can also flag you for your knee, especially if the Commander believes that your profile is getting extended because of non-compliance with medical directives (rehab) (physical limitations) "through the Soldier’s fault as determined by the commander" You said " I’ve been on profile for my knee for the past 10 months, yet I have been still jumping and taking PT tests, etc"
Does your profile say no jumping? Does it say run at own pace or no running? You're done, by being "hooha" you may have gotten yourself sent to a non-airborne position.
AR 600–8–2 • 11 May 2016
2–3. Circumstances requiring a transferable Flag
A Soldier flagged under the provisions of this paragraph may be reassigned to another unit by following the guidance in paragraph 2–8. The specific actions listed below require initiation of a transferable Flag (see table 2–1). More than one Flag may be required concurrently. Examples of circumstances requiring transferable Flags include—
b. “Army Physical Fitness Test failure” (Flag code J). Initiate a Flag when a Soldier fails a record APFT or when, through the Soldier’s fault as determined by the commander, the Soldier fails to take the APFT within the time prescribed by existing regulations, or when directed by the commanding officer (as provided for in AR 350–1).
Take the reassignment and go heal your knee, when its ready you can return to status. They can't take your wings, that's forever, so accept what your Commander is trying to do for you and come back better and stronger.
The easy answer is yes, your command can move you to a non-airborne unit.
AR 40–501 • 14 December 2007
5–5. Medical fitness standards for retention for Airborne duty, Ranger duty, and Special Forces duty
Retention of an individual in Airborne duty, Ranger duty, and Special Forces duty will be based on—
a. His or her continued demonstrated ability to perform satisfactorily his or her duty as an Airborne officer or enlisted Soldier, Ranger, or Special Forces member.
b. The effect upon the individual’s health and well-being by remaining on Airborne, Ranger, or Special Forces duty
Your commander can say your knee being under protective medical status (profile) demonstrates you are not fit for retention in an airborne position. Are you running? Has your run score dropped? When you finish a run do you require medical care, brace, Motrin etc. Its subjective by your commander.
Part b. is the killer paragraph, "The effect upon the individual’s health and well-being by remaining on Airborne duty" if the Commander feels continuing to jump will have a negative affect on your knee he/she can have you reassigned.
I used this regulation to convince my commander to reassign a soldier to a desk in the S-1 pending a physical because we suspected he had a medical condition. Just suspected. Later we found he had a heart condition during a stress test and he was chaptered.
Your commander can also flag you for your knee, especially if the Commander believes that your profile is getting extended because of non-compliance with medical directives (rehab) (physical limitations) "through the Soldier’s fault as determined by the commander" You said " I’ve been on profile for my knee for the past 10 months, yet I have been still jumping and taking PT tests, etc"
Does your profile say no jumping? Does it say run at own pace or no running? You're done, by being "hooha" you may have gotten yourself sent to a non-airborne position.
AR 600–8–2 • 11 May 2016
2–3. Circumstances requiring a transferable Flag
A Soldier flagged under the provisions of this paragraph may be reassigned to another unit by following the guidance in paragraph 2–8. The specific actions listed below require initiation of a transferable Flag (see table 2–1). More than one Flag may be required concurrently. Examples of circumstances requiring transferable Flags include—
b. “Army Physical Fitness Test failure” (Flag code J). Initiate a Flag when a Soldier fails a record APFT or when, through the Soldier’s fault as determined by the commander, the Soldier fails to take the APFT within the time prescribed by existing regulations, or when directed by the commanding officer (as provided for in AR 350–1).
Take the reassignment and go heal your knee, when its ready you can return to status. They can't take your wings, that's forever, so accept what your Commander is trying to do for you and come back better and stronger.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
They can move you, but your SQI of P will stay. It took me years to have my P removed and somehow it just went back on my record.
Let your knee heal and go back.
Let your knee heal and go back.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
CPL Rayel, well you never know how thick the ice is until you walk on it...what I mean is I think there's a lot more here that we can see. The Bn Leadership wants as many Troopers to exit the aircraft as possible to keep the readiness of the unit high. 10 months on profile...that the red flag, its time to make a decision what to do about your knee...can it be fixed? How long will it take? The Bn leadership is looking at this as a readiness issue, not singling you out to take you off status? You really need to focus on your knee, once that is resolved, you jump status will resolve itself. Good luck!
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
Ues, they can reassign you.
It may not be about the profile.
Are you violating the profile when you take a PT test and/or jump?
It may not be about the profile.
Are you violating the profile when you take a PT test and/or jump?
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google