Posted on Apr 3, 2016
Can Brigade CSM deny BLC if I passed APFT (all events over 70%) and am within Army body fat percentage?
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Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC)
NCO Academy
NCOES
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 25
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SSG (Join to see)
CW3 (Join to see) - AR 600-9 Chapter 3 Section 2:
c. Commanders are authorized to use the weight for height table (see app B) as a screening tool in order to expedite
the semi-annual testing process. If Soldiers do not exceed the authorized screening table weight for their age and
measured height, no body fat assessment is required.
d. Commanders have the authority to direct a body fat assessment on any Soldier that they determine does not
present a Soldierly appearance, regardless of whether or not the Soldier exceeds the screening table weight for his or
her measured height.
e. Soldiers identified as exceeding the body fat standard will be flagged in accordance with AR 600–8–2 and
enrolled in the ABCP. They must meet the body fat standard in this regulation in order to be released from the
program.
If you are taped for any reason and fail then you should be flagged IAW AR 600-9 guidance. The question could be did the Commander direct you to be taped. The ABCP belongs to the commander. But we know the Commander will likely back any senior NCO as they should.
c. Commanders are authorized to use the weight for height table (see app B) as a screening tool in order to expedite
the semi-annual testing process. If Soldiers do not exceed the authorized screening table weight for their age and
measured height, no body fat assessment is required.
d. Commanders have the authority to direct a body fat assessment on any Soldier that they determine does not
present a Soldierly appearance, regardless of whether or not the Soldier exceeds the screening table weight for his or
her measured height.
e. Soldiers identified as exceeding the body fat standard will be flagged in accordance with AR 600–8–2 and
enrolled in the ABCP. They must meet the body fat standard in this regulation in order to be released from the
program.
If you are taped for any reason and fail then you should be flagged IAW AR 600-9 guidance. The question could be did the Commander direct you to be taped. The ABCP belongs to the commander. But we know the Commander will likely back any senior NCO as they should.
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SFC (Join to see)
So the answer to the question is “yes”. He can pull your slot and swap you for any reason that he feels is relevant to a number scenarios. A few have already been mentioned here. People that are schools managers generally try not to waste the Army’s money. Maybe he needed to swap it for another soldier with a higher priority or STEP requirement etc etc. Anyway bottom line is yes and he doesn’t have to counsel you. As a courtesy you should be counseled, but........
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Something isn't adding up here. I don't know many BDE CSM's that would tape someone 7 pounds under UNLESS they have a history of being overweight and close on tape.
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SGT Jack Stevens
SGM, I've noticed a common theme amoung CSM's at BDE level the last 10 years or so doing this especially combat arms CSM's.
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Command has the final say on everything...
That being said they have to have some sort of reason, if you feel your being treated unfairly you can always look into the program's put into place to keep things equal.
That being said they have to have some sort of reason, if you feel your being treated unfairly you can always look into the program's put into place to keep things equal.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) - You do not need to exceed weight limits to be taped. You can be taped at any time based on personal appearance.
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SSG (Join to see)
Just goes to show how flawed the taping system truly is. And technically even if you are just taped out of the blue and you fail (I realize you haven't) you can be flagged, unlike the APFT which has to be a record.
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SFC (Join to see)
1SG Jon Weiss - Top, exactly right.
To be clear, my comment was that the taping itself can be done based on personal appearance, but you're 100% correct, you must actually fail the tape to suffer any administrative actions.
To be clear, my comment was that the taping itself can be done based on personal appearance, but you're 100% correct, you must actually fail the tape to suffer any administrative actions.
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ABCP is the Commander's program. The Commander can assess body fat whether or not you meet screening table weight. However, it is NOT a requirement. If the BN CSM is going to pull a Soldiers packet, he should advise the BN CDR to establish a policy that states all Soldiers attending PME will be taped and will not attend if they are within such and such percentage of the body fat standard. Set the standard, so Soldiers know the standards.
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As a former BN Schools NCO, this question and issue would come up alot in the processing of packets. This was particularly true for NCOES and Drill Sergeant/Recruiter packets. Each Brigade has it's own SOP as far as what it wants for acceptable packets. Also, depending on the installation and where the course is, there are requirements set forth by the Division CSM. If a Soldier was within 2% of the maximum body fat percentage (regardless of ht/wt), then they would be counseled by the 1SG and BN CSM and then the BDE CSM before the packet would ever make it to DIV Schools.
It comes down to each individual CSM's standards and the fact that they don't want to respond to an RBI to the Sergeant Major of the Army (which I have had to write a few of). Also, Thomas...you should remember this from 1-64.
It comes down to each individual CSM's standards and the fact that they don't want to respond to an RBI to the Sergeant Major of the Army (which I have had to write a few of). Also, Thomas...you should remember this from 1-64.
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Query - Were there soldiers that scored higher than you on the APFT?
I ask this because I always wanted those that excelled to move ahead faster than those that only 'passed' the APFT, especially if they did not strive for their best score. This also applied to weapons qualification etc. Key things were their performance in all soldier areas - uniform, maintenance of individual/unit equipment, attitude (did they gripe about everything), did they help others, were they functional/deadweightmembers of the team, did they have bad checks, domestic problems, drugs/drunks, wife-beaters, chasing married spouses and a long list of other behavorial problems.
No one is perfect and I certainly screwed the pooche a couple of times myself but looking back I did fairly well. I will say everytime another soldier was selected over me for a school or position it was fair. On the other hand I wasn't interested in ever being a 1SG or a CSM. It wasn't my path so there were times I didn't paint the correct rocks red.
Best of luck to you.
I ask this because I always wanted those that excelled to move ahead faster than those that only 'passed' the APFT, especially if they did not strive for their best score. This also applied to weapons qualification etc. Key things were their performance in all soldier areas - uniform, maintenance of individual/unit equipment, attitude (did they gripe about everything), did they help others, were they functional/deadweightmembers of the team, did they have bad checks, domestic problems, drugs/drunks, wife-beaters, chasing married spouses and a long list of other behavorial problems.
No one is perfect and I certainly screwed the pooche a couple of times myself but looking back I did fairly well. I will say everytime another soldier was selected over me for a school or position it was fair. On the other hand I wasn't interested in ever being a 1SG or a CSM. It wasn't my path so there were times I didn't paint the correct rocks red.
Best of luck to you.
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A CSM shouldn't be denying you anything- that's a commander's call. However, he can certainly influence. And as long as you pass everything, why would he get in the way?
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MSG (Join to see)
there is such a thing that is nco business, we are nco's for a reason, we train and promoted those under use to better serve you young puke a&&s, 2nd lt really, when you grow facial hair then talk to me
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CPT (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - this about the most rude and dis respectful thing on here. If you read previous comments you would see I was prior SSG. Far from professional
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MSG (Join to see)
doesnt matter if you were prior enlisted or not nco business is nco business as a former nco you should know this
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CPT (Join to see)
You have a differing opinion. Hardly the end of the world. Your disrespect is my issue
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The Brigade CSM can indeed pull your packet. Especially if they feel you are "marginal." It doesn't appear that you are marginal, however, based upon what you've shared. I would use the open door policy and inquire as to why your packet was pulled.
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