Posted on Oct 30, 2015
Can counselling chits be back dated to past events that weren't documented at the time?
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I know a sailor that is being told from their chain of command, that they are trying to send said sailor up to Captain's Mast. Right now they are making said sailor sign counselling chits for past events that they were already verbally counselled for and transpired over the past year. Is such a thing legal and does anyone know the instruction for it? The only thing I can find is:
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/1600Performance/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/1600Performance/Pages/default.aspx
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 49
Don't know how the Navy does things, but the Army has regulations that place a statute of limitations on past indiscretions. We had a Soldier back in the early 90's where our command (in Georgia) tried to impose NJP on him for something that happened two years prior while he was stationed in Germany. He saw JAG and got it thrown out for 2 simple reasons. 1) statute of limitations, and 2) a unit cannot punish an individual for an offense that happened in another unit.
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CPO (Join to see)
I have recommended the sailor to talk to legal to see what they say. I don't know the particulars of the situation, but I know from what I'm being told that it sounds like their chain of command is just trying to build up a reason for this sailor to go to Mast.
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PO1 Scott Cottrell
All Sailors get Evaluations every year (unless it's changed since I retired), Counseling Chits (good and bad) should be inputs for the yearly Evaluation. Once an Evaluation is signed past counseling chits no longer can be held against you, as they should be reflected in the Evaluation. Only Counseling Chits since your current Evaluation can be counted for or against you. Past and current Evaluations can come into play, as they stay in your service record. But Counseling Chits are only good until an Evaluation cycle.
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If he or she had any verbal counseling for past events it should be documented in their training jacket. At least we did with every command I was in. They could use that for the Capt. Mast
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I know it's been a very long time since I got out, but that was absolutely illegal back in the '70s and '80s. It sounds like someone is trying to railroad your buddy.
Addenda:
I don't recall having such a thing as a 'counseling chit' back then either. If I had some seaman that needed counseling, I handled things at my level as much as possible. For me to have to get my chief involved, the guy would have had to have been a serious screw up. And I don't recall ever having to get my chief involved. I do, however, recall just one incident where my chief warned me to be careful about my 'counseling' methods. I never did have to send one of my kids to mast.
Addenda:
I don't recall having such a thing as a 'counseling chit' back then either. If I had some seaman that needed counseling, I handled things at my level as much as possible. For me to have to get my chief involved, the guy would have had to have been a serious screw up. And I don't recall ever having to get my chief involved. I do, however, recall just one incident where my chief warned me to be careful about my 'counseling' methods. I never did have to send one of my kids to mast.
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Suspended Profile
No....but you can do one with the current date and reference the events if they were not previously mentioned .....however the rebuttal from the individual would simple be something like "if this was so horrible why did you wait till now to write it up".....basically unless it's a legal thing that was under investigation already or had new evidence the widow of opportunity has probably passed. Would recommend ADC or consult private lawyer for your friend.
No they can't they can only do current events. My chain of command tried that with me but have failed due to the CO knowing what was going on. I stood my ground on what I knew was right and my chain of command didn't like that.
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Whatever Sailor is backdating the chits failed themselves, their command, and the Navy, but not the problem child in question.
And no, it's against the counselling orders in all branches and possibly an offense under the UCMJ to do so.
And no, it's against the counselling orders in all branches and possibly an offense under the UCMJ to do so.
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Document! Document! Document! Back in the day, if you were having issues with a sailor, especially for the same thing, if you documented it at least 3 times, then you could use it for disciplinary action: e.g. XOI, Captain's Mast, etc. If it isn't documented it NEVER happened. If this sailor is being made to sign counseling chits that are backdated for previous infractions, regardless if they were verbally counseled for it, then they should be seeking legal counsel themselves. Chain of command failed to do their job correctly. Said sailor, I hope, takes a strong look at their actions and if they wish to remain in the Navy, and do what they should be doing. Hope it all works for the best.
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No Counseling chits from before last Eval. Once you get an Eval (those chits should have been input for the Eval), they can not use them against you at Mast. As an PO3, I was taken to Mast, mostly based on past Counseling Chits. After Mast, I had 3 PO1's grab me, sat me down and showed me how to file a grievance. As I had an Eval 6 months before Mast and all of the Counseling chits were 9 months and older. They could not be used at Mast. Anyway my Mast was thrown out because of old Chits and them trying to change the punishment for the crime. BQ room failed inspection while I was TAD to another command, normal punishment was open bay BQ for a month, they tried to bust me down to E-3 and move me to open bay. Oh and they did not go after my roommate who was there for the failure. Headhunting at it's finest. Thank god for the 3 PO1's who grabbed me, 1 retired as a PO1, One retired as a Chief, the last retired as a Master chief. Then again that was over 20 years ago.
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You can't so much backdate but you can include previous offenses in a current counseling session.
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