Posted on Sep 2, 2020
Can I be forced to shave if I have a shaving profile?
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What’s up everybody I’m pv2 jones and I been in the army a little over 9 months, I love serving until it comes to shaving. I’ve tried everything and my face bumps up terrible man I’m talking about it looks disgusting, plenty of my Drill Sgts in AIT tried teaching me how to shave but it doesn’t work. So I just got to my new unit about 2 and a half months ago and I was still shaving even though it was painful and it looked Terrible, one day an NCO From another unit told me that I NEED to go get a shaving profile because my face just looks terrible and she can tell I was in pain so I promised her I will go get one and have them check it out . After my first appointment the dermatologist gave me a permanent shaving profile and told me that I don’t need to shave atleast until my bumps are clear. So a few weeks go by and I have a little beard (still in regulation 1/4 of an inch) so After pt my squad leader pulls me to The side and starts cursing me out at the top of his lungs saying I need to shave , I told him respectfully I have a shaving profile and it hurts for me to shave he stares at me and replied Under his breath “like every other black person in the army that can’t use razors” I didn’t say anything but it kind of hurt because I don’t want to be a odd ball in my company (I’m in a infantry company btw) so later that day we go into work to clean weapons and he calls me over and apologizes about this morning and I told him it was ok he then said that I need to shave still if I want to make it in the military and I replied and told him I’m not shaving so he can F’ing forget about it he then told me since I cursed him my punishment will be to shave or receive a article for disrespecting a NCO so later I went to my barracks room and shaved during lunch and came back in he then told me that no matter what my profile says I need to listen to him and shave I told my platoon sgt about this whole Situation and he told me I need to listen to my squad leader and shave because the army just gives shaving profiles to anyone. Is this right?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 254
You have a medical issue that is signed off by a military doctor. If your MOS does not call for you to be clean shaven which would require a change of MOS, then you have handled this correctly. If you are still receiving letters of repremand for this, go to your company NCO and if you get no relief from this office, go to the staff of the Batallion. If you are black, you might want to seek out a black NCO to run interference for you. I had women under my command that couldn't wear bras because of dermatology issues. In a case like this, I found a female TSGT to handle the issue. In this case, the young A1C (E-3) did not have a medical letter and the TSGT rectified the situation. You have one and your shaving could present an infection situation rendering you NMR.
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Some of these responses don't give me a warm feeling that we can win in combat. EEO complaint? Lol
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Permanent profiles do not need to be signed by the commander only temporary profiles do since it is basically a doctor recommending a course of action to the soldiers commander. Permanent profiles are not recommendations like a temporary profile, and normally they are signed by at a Lieutenant Colonel or above making a permanent medical diagnosis. Comnanders don't have the authority to make a soldier ignore that profile like they do with a temporary. As far as the racial comments, that needs to be reported ASAP.
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PV2 Jones,
Sorry to hear your situation and the complete ignorance of your squad leader. Unfortunately, many soldiers assume what they think or heard is the correct answer. The most important weapon you could acquire for your military career is knowledge. Do not go by what you heard before or believe should be right. Gather the information right from the Army Regulations, and read the whole paragraphs and not only the sentence that may prove your point. Understand what the regulation is addressing before you quote the Army Regulation. It seems your unit needs a lot of training to address this type of behavior from the Senior NCO's to lower enlisted.
About your issue,
First of all, you need to address this to your Platoon Sergeant and inform him that you want to use your Commander's open-door policy. You must bring this to the Commander's attention, as it seems that this may be happening without his knowledge and if he wasn't afraid and scream this to you, then is the norm there, and the Commander is losing control of his unit.
The Doctor wrote a profile that informs your Commander of the limitations you may have. The Commander may analyze the Doctor's recommendation and grant you the request from the Doctor. In my 20+ years of experience, nine out of 10 the Command does not oppose the Doctor's advice. But with this said, it's the Commander authority, not your squad leader authority, and if you Platoon Sergeant agreed with the statement made by his squad leader, it shows his lack of experience or knowledge.
Second, you need to contact the Equal Opportunity for the racial statement that is not acceptable "like every other black person in the army that can't use razors." If you don't address it now, this squad leader will continue this behavior with you and with others. You should not accept another verbal apology from him as he disrespected you in front of many, and there should be many witnesses of his statements. The problem is if he treats you like this during a non-stressful environment, imagine how he is going to treat you in a combat situation and how he will value your life.
Sorry to hear your situation and the complete ignorance of your squad leader. Unfortunately, many soldiers assume what they think or heard is the correct answer. The most important weapon you could acquire for your military career is knowledge. Do not go by what you heard before or believe should be right. Gather the information right from the Army Regulations, and read the whole paragraphs and not only the sentence that may prove your point. Understand what the regulation is addressing before you quote the Army Regulation. It seems your unit needs a lot of training to address this type of behavior from the Senior NCO's to lower enlisted.
About your issue,
First of all, you need to address this to your Platoon Sergeant and inform him that you want to use your Commander's open-door policy. You must bring this to the Commander's attention, as it seems that this may be happening without his knowledge and if he wasn't afraid and scream this to you, then is the norm there, and the Commander is losing control of his unit.
The Doctor wrote a profile that informs your Commander of the limitations you may have. The Commander may analyze the Doctor's recommendation and grant you the request from the Doctor. In my 20+ years of experience, nine out of 10 the Command does not oppose the Doctor's advice. But with this said, it's the Commander authority, not your squad leader authority, and if you Platoon Sergeant agreed with the statement made by his squad leader, it shows his lack of experience or knowledge.
Second, you need to contact the Equal Opportunity for the racial statement that is not acceptable "like every other black person in the army that can't use razors." If you don't address it now, this squad leader will continue this behavior with you and with others. You should not accept another verbal apology from him as he disrespected you in front of many, and there should be many witnesses of his statements. The problem is if he treats you like this during a non-stressful environment, imagine how he is going to treat you in a combat situation and how he will value your life.
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This has EO written all over and you need to make a complaint! Don't wait or blow it off.
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A profile is a profile for a reason, it is not that you don't want to but you can't, I had a profile because I tore my knees up running on concrete everyday and none of my superior could say anything because I had severe issues with my knees and was in physical therapy and the military doctors wanted to give the cartilage in my knees time to heal ie, no running profile and I never had a issue, my first sergeant stopped me once because I was not running with the company and asked me why I wasn't running I told him I had a no running profile, I showed it to him he said okay and to take it easy and went about his business. If your superior made that racist statement which in fact is a racist statement then you need to report it to his superior and if it isn't hands file a EO complaint because that was racist and unprofessional and when you are supervising soldiers you need be professional because lower enlisted soldiers are looking up to them. Good luck soldier
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Thiese two NCOs coerced you into breaking a profile. They're subject to NJP for that. But, most Glaring, you need to contact your PL and Commander about discrimination. If they do nothing, go to your EOA.
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You can also get an article 15 for not follow a profile. You are not following a direct order of your physician. I suggest if the problem persist with your chain of command you have a visit with the profile issuing physician and let them know what you are encountering. I was a combat medic that also worked in the local clinic to keep my skills up and continue my education in other classes such as how to give and treat shaving profiles and applying casts etc. Good luck Pvt2. Don't let a few bad eggs get you down and especially don't let them treat you differently due to your race. I had issues being a female medic in an infantry unit I was given a lot of grief when I required special sleeping quarters and shower facilities when in the field. Stay strong!
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Maybe you should find another career field--someplace that does not have the grooming standards of the military.
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