Posted on Sep 2, 2020
Can I be forced to shave if I have a shaving profile?
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What’s up everybody I’m pv2 jones and I been in the army a little over 9 months, I love serving until it comes to shaving. I’ve tried everything and my face bumps up terrible man I’m talking about it looks disgusting, plenty of my Drill Sgts in AIT tried teaching me how to shave but it doesn’t work. So I just got to my new unit about 2 and a half months ago and I was still shaving even though it was painful and it looked Terrible, one day an NCO From another unit told me that I NEED to go get a shaving profile because my face just looks terrible and she can tell I was in pain so I promised her I will go get one and have them check it out . After my first appointment the dermatologist gave me a permanent shaving profile and told me that I don’t need to shave atleast until my bumps are clear. So a few weeks go by and I have a little beard (still in regulation 1/4 of an inch) so After pt my squad leader pulls me to The side and starts cursing me out at the top of his lungs saying I need to shave , I told him respectfully I have a shaving profile and it hurts for me to shave he stares at me and replied Under his breath “like every other black person in the army that can’t use razors” I didn’t say anything but it kind of hurt because I don’t want to be a odd ball in my company (I’m in a infantry company btw) so later that day we go into work to clean weapons and he calls me over and apologizes about this morning and I told him it was ok he then said that I need to shave still if I want to make it in the military and I replied and told him I’m not shaving so he can F’ing forget about it he then told me since I cursed him my punishment will be to shave or receive a article for disrespecting a NCO so later I went to my barracks room and shaved during lunch and came back in he then told me that no matter what my profile says I need to listen to him and shave I told my platoon sgt about this whole Situation and he told me I need to listen to my squad leader and shave because the army just gives shaving profiles to anyone. Is this right?
Platoon Sergeant
Platoon Leader
Commander
CCMSgt
NCO Academy
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 254
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You need to file an EEO complaint. That was terribly racist and not mention, completely unprofessional.
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As far as the threatened article-15, it seems that this one would be the one to buck. Go for the court martial where the facts are presented at trial. I think they would not want the facts to be presented to a board of officers. F***ing as you used it is an adjective that has no connection to the NCO at all. It is directly connected to “forget it”. If the NCO EVER used the word that way in speaking to you he has no legs to stand on (and probably doesn’t even if he didn’t since it is so f****ing commonly used). I would check with JAG about it to be sure.
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I have had a permanent profile, after a knee injury and surgery, for 8 years. The profile is guidance for your command team to take into consideration when in the performance of your duties and used to determine your deployable status, should you come up for a deployment. They are in no way authorized to force you to violate the guidance set forth in the profile. Them telling you to do so is way outside their left and right limits and could get them into some hot water. I had a SL try to force me to violate my profile by running the 2 mile just a couple weeks after the surgery, telling me he was ordering me to run. He tried to have UCMJ action taken against me for disobeying his order. He was removed from his leadership position for this, counseled thoroughly, and made to give an extensive PowerPoint presentation on what profiles are and how trying to force someone to violate them could be detrimental to their safety and readiness.
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1st of all, the EO violation by the Squad Leader must be addressed. Not only African-American soldiers suffer from shaving profiles, I had one because I contracted an allergy in the field and doctors recommended a shaving profile. My Commander reviewed my profile and signed my profile giving a copy to the 1SG. No one bothered me for three weeks and I maintained standards. My profile was reviewed after three weeks. This is common and the process is in place. There is no need to curse or demonize a race. The Squad Leader is out of line, but the soldier shouldn't have retaliated in a cursing contest with his leader. This was easily manageable at the PSG level. We don't beg for profiles, yet allergies find us and attack us, which is why doctors recommend profiles.
As Company XO, I am the 1SG fielded many complaints of unprofessional appearance. In each case, the doctor's recommendation weighed on our decisions because doctors are not into the business of dishing out profiles without good reason.
Best is to have your profile sanctioned by the Commander and provide copies to the 1SG and the PSG to avoid conflict in the ranks, AND refrain from revenge matches with seniors chosen to lead you.
As Company XO, I am the 1SG fielded many complaints of unprofessional appearance. In each case, the doctor's recommendation weighed on our decisions because doctors are not into the business of dishing out profiles without good reason.
Best is to have your profile sanctioned by the Commander and provide copies to the 1SG and the PSG to avoid conflict in the ranks, AND refrain from revenge matches with seniors chosen to lead you.
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Well, I'm not in the army however, this is an EO complaint top to bottom. Also, if you have a valid shaving waiver, he can't make you shave regardless of how red in the face he gets.
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If you have a medical condition that prevents you from shaving,, you need to pay a visit to your Doctor Who would make an assessment and it’s warranted he will provide you with a profile waiver that will become part of your permanent record. You ashould carry a copy of the authorization for the Incrediulous.
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Young Soldier, I have been in that very same predicament. I had a shaving profile for a very long time. The fact is your squad leader or platoon Sergeant don't know what uniformity or keeping simple order and discipline is. If they know they're simply unaware of your pain. Don't you abuse your shaving profile. Go a step up your chain and utilize the open door policy. You do not want to keep wearing a nasty face in uniform or worst yet get a Pseudofolliculitis barbae (PFB) on your face. JAG or the IG can put it in prospective better for you if they keep messing with you. But as I said don't abuse your shaving profile always keep a very low even trim (a T Edge Andis clipper will work). Do it the right way by educating your squad leader and PSG respectfully.
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If you have a medical problem that prevents you from shaving your doctor can give you a waiver that can be permanently placed in you record! I will carry a copy of it for the i credulous!
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I had a shaving profile while I was enlisted, getting bumps, etc if the shave was 'too close.' Anyway, my solution in the end was a razor shave once or twice a week and electric in between as needed. Especially after my profile ended, I kept the electric on me in uniform just in case I got called out.
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I also had a one of them, and I felt like a oddball so I started using clipper with guards and trimmers keep it well Groomed they won't bother u again. Well not as much.
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