Posted on Sep 2, 2020
Can I be forced to shave if I have a shaving profile?
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What’s up everybody I’m pv2 jones and I been in the army a little over 9 months, I love serving until it comes to shaving. I’ve tried everything and my face bumps up terrible man I’m talking about it looks disgusting, plenty of my Drill Sgts in AIT tried teaching me how to shave but it doesn’t work. So I just got to my new unit about 2 and a half months ago and I was still shaving even though it was painful and it looked Terrible, one day an NCO From another unit told me that I NEED to go get a shaving profile because my face just looks terrible and she can tell I was in pain so I promised her I will go get one and have them check it out . After my first appointment the dermatologist gave me a permanent shaving profile and told me that I don’t need to shave atleast until my bumps are clear. So a few weeks go by and I have a little beard (still in regulation 1/4 of an inch) so After pt my squad leader pulls me to The side and starts cursing me out at the top of his lungs saying I need to shave , I told him respectfully I have a shaving profile and it hurts for me to shave he stares at me and replied Under his breath “like every other black person in the army that can’t use razors” I didn’t say anything but it kind of hurt because I don’t want to be a odd ball in my company (I’m in a infantry company btw) so later that day we go into work to clean weapons and he calls me over and apologizes about this morning and I told him it was ok he then said that I need to shave still if I want to make it in the military and I replied and told him I’m not shaving so he can F’ing forget about it he then told me since I cursed him my punishment will be to shave or receive a article for disrespecting a NCO so later I went to my barracks room and shaved during lunch and came back in he then told me that no matter what my profile says I need to listen to him and shave I told my platoon sgt about this whole Situation and he told me I need to listen to my squad leader and shave because the army just gives shaving profiles to anyone. Is this right?
Platoon Sergeant
Platoon Leader
Commander
CCMSgt
NCO Academy
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 254
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Known several people with your medical condition, including myself, when I was in the army and the navy. I'm a white guy but as a young man I had very curly whiskers. To a man, they either started shaving, including me, or got out. The prejudice against beards was just too great. It's not right and you can buck it and maybe win, you're in the right. Problem is that chain of command will give you subtle downchecks on evals and not list that as the reason. I saw that happen time and again.
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DOES NOT MATTER, BLACK, WHITE, BROWN, BLUE, YELLOW, ETC. A "SHAVING PROFILE" MEANS NO SHAVING. I HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM IN THE LATE 60s(1969), MY PLATOON SGT. MADE ME "DRY SHAVE" THE PEACH FUZZ OFF MY FACE IN THE CHOW LINE. I NEVER GOT A "PROFILE" AND EVEN TODAY AT 71 I CAN GO DAYS WITHOUT SHAVING.
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If this crap continues, I'd recommend that you take a look at Article 138 of the UCMJ. Consult with the JAG shop if you need to, but Article 138 should stop it in its tracks. Note that it is an extreme measure, meant only for the egregious situation. Check it out.
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Short answer: Your squad leader and your platoon sergeant are wrong. They are putting you between a rock and a hard place. Either you back down and shave, in which case they have successfully abused you, or you file a complaint, in which case you will be known as a bellyacher. My advice is file the complaint and let the chips fall where they may. Then put forth 100%+ and prove your mettle as a soldier. That will shut everyone up but the other soldiers who will respect you for your service.
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I have never had a problem shaving and about 80% of the other black men shaved as well however, a couple did have profiles in my company also my oldest son has to use special order shaving supplies as he has had some shaving challenges while my youngest has never had shaving issues, it does affect some Black Americans but not all. My thoughts are find a solution and pick your battles, I was in the corporate world at a high level for 42 years and "beards were discouraged" , I built a reputation for being a company man that got things done, not the executive with a beard, I retired as one of a few company SVP's in USA
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That is the classic example of toxic leadership. They are correct that in the infantry world, being different usually cripples the career. However, you are a supply specialist that is responsible for helping them navigate the Army supply chain to help them get what they need. Any other unit (non-combat arms) you were assigned to would most likely not have a problem following the orders of a shaving profile. You did the right thing. Even though that dude deserves to lose his leadership position saying racist shit like that, sounds like you mostly kept your cool. The other senior leaders on this post seem to have good advice for you. The Army is in need of leaders who understand their soldiers, and can apply their strengths to the appropriate places, rather than continually tear down useful people that don't conform to their image/definition of what something is.
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You have a written order ( Shaving Profile ) and most are written and signed by and officer. I one see and EO Complaint and two IG visit. Three being told to ignore a written order? Who in the hell do these NCO's think they are anyway you NEVER ignore a written order Unless it is a violation of Health and Safety.
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I have heard of shaving profiles but never knew anyone that had one but I would never harass someone that had one. I also had served with black soldiers and had black instructors at many schools I attended and none of them had a shaving profile so his comment is false But that comment is a definite EO offense and is more serious than not shaving and needs to be addressed. As others have said if there were no witnesses it will be hard to prove but if he has made similar comments to others and they have reported it then it will show a pattern of behavior. Hopefully it was just a moment of stupidity and doesn’t happen again
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1. Sounds like your NCO forgot the NCO creed. His actions are unprofessional, and yes.. even racist. File an EO complain with your company EEO officer... not optional. Our service doesn't need that type of crap happening, period.
2. Quarter inch is max on a shaving profile.. I suggest getting a good set of oster or wahl trimmers and get a 40 blade for them.. It's what vet's use to shave pre-surgery. That should keep your squad leader happy without the irritation.. If you experience irritation, move up one blade size, say a 10 blade (~ 2mm length after cut.... 1/4" is ~6mm). Maintain the blade (meaning weekly disassembly and oiling) and they'll last you longer than your term of service. Yes, it costs you a little bit of money... dont cheap out on your clippers. That said, it shows you're complying to regulation as much as possible from within your profile and it should keep NCO's off your back.
2. Quarter inch is max on a shaving profile.. I suggest getting a good set of oster or wahl trimmers and get a 40 blade for them.. It's what vet's use to shave pre-surgery. That should keep your squad leader happy without the irritation.. If you experience irritation, move up one blade size, say a 10 blade (~ 2mm length after cut.... 1/4" is ~6mm). Maintain the blade (meaning weekly disassembly and oiling) and they'll last you longer than your term of service. Yes, it costs you a little bit of money... dont cheap out on your clippers. That said, it shows you're complying to regulation as much as possible from within your profile and it should keep NCO's off your back.
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