Posted on Mar 16, 2021
SGT Infantryman
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I passed the board recently and now im being told i may have to be a CPL until i go to BLC or until i get back from ranger school. I dont want to take responsibility as a team leader and still get paid as a SPC. Can i deny a 4187 ?
Posted in these groups: 72918f9c PromotableStar PromotionsArmycpl CPL
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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Wow, I am honestly suprised by the hostility demonstrated in this comment section. The kid simply asked if he legally can deny a 4187. It would be easy to pigeonhole yourself into thinking this decision is strictly about his monthly paycheck. Though that is the example he cited as justification, it is much more complicated an issue than that. Not being familiar with HIS SPECIFIC COMMAND TEAM, we cannot assume that he is just a "shitbag" who doesnt want the responsibility of an NCO.

As someone who watched points sit at 790-never and WAS promoted to corporal for the duration, I can say corporal was HANDS DOWN the WORST time in my career. I found myself as the CQ NCO as well as the CQ runner bc a runner was "E4 and below" and CQ NCO required "an NCO". If there was a Soldier on extra duty, guess which NCO they used and abused? Pawned off inconvenient NCO duties to, yup, me. But NCOPD? Never. Stable Call for NCOs? E5 and up. Corporal is literally a rank that is given next to no respect and is abused by leadership. Now, consider the financial implications, no additional money but now he has to completely redo his uniforms (re-sew all of his rank and make them match due to fading, sew new rank on his blues) but all of the financial implications without receiving any additional income to do so. Is it so hard to empathize that if he is married with dependants, he may already be paycheck to paycheck as is?

The kid came here for answers, not opinions. We, as leaders in the Army, should have been better for him.

So the answer to your question. Yes, you can deny a 4187 by speaking with your chain of command. If you do so, you will likely need to have a conversation as to "why". I would be forward about legitimate concerns and personally would not cite no pay increase as the only justification. Be aware, as others have mentioned, that this may bring scrutiny on you and change the opinion your leaders have about you. So yes, you can....but consider it thoroughly and prepare yourself accordingly.
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SGT David Schrader
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Why would you want to decline becoming a Corporal?
You are going through Ranger school and yet you do not want to be in a leadership position?
Makes no sense, unless you just want to be a follower or do not intend to stay in the Army.
Apparently your chain of command sees enough in you to put you in a leadership position. If you try to decline this leadership position, it can possibly jeopardize your Ranger status or any future promotion possibilities. Do you not want to be a leader? Think about what you are considering. Don’t throw your opportunities away.
Good luck to you.
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PO2 Lon Hebert
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I was not in the army but to me anyone who gets promoted should take it. when I was in the navy in 1982 I made RM2 E-5 I was frocked to E-5 Meaning that I was still getting paid as a RM3/E-4 Until my actual date I got paid for E-5. But I was a watch sup in NAVFAC Guam radio shack. it is your responsibility to take the promotion to show the chain of command that you are willing to be in charge. if all you are caring about is the money then you need to get out.
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SFC Herbert Taitingfong
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If you're in it for the money then decline and get back in line, which shows everybody what kind of person and leader you are or you will be. We are all expendable, grab the opportunity and separate yourself from the rest, put your back-bone in it, or there will be another young motivated Soldier, next in-line to do so!

With that said......

Your BLC school date is probably close and you are not promoted to Sergeant yet.
You have to be an NCO before going to BLC, that's why your leaders want to pin Corporal on you or your PSG and schools guy will have to push back your BLC dates until after you are promoted to Sgt/E-5.

As a Corporal, you are an NCO and will be indoctrinated into the NCO Corps and will reap all the benefits as other NCOs prior to BLC and you will be ahead of the game on other NCOs at that school, as a leader, already.

"Step-up or Shut-up! Lead by example! or just get out of the way!"
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MAJ Richard Cheek
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You boys are spoiled I had PFC leading squads in the 101st in 72. I was an e5 acting platoon sgt. Hell I took a majors position for over a year as an e7. Your a leader or your a snuffy make up your mind.
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SGT Supply Sergeant (S4)
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"I don't want to take responsibility as a team leader and still get paid as a SPC."

This is your thesis and main idea. Congrats on passing the board. At this point of reading your post, unfortunately, your getting through it is irrelevant. Your statement of what you do not want outshines your accomplishment.

Simply put, you don't want to lead. You don't want to be a NCO. You want a paycheck. I hate to break it to you; but if you're going to remain in the Military for any longer, you will always be assigned duties beyond your rank.

It's an honor to be a CPL where CPLs are recognized. You do not have the requirements to promote to the next higher grade. It's a slap in the face to your leadership who saw the potential to promote but have been limited by your not meeting the requirements to be pinned. A bit self-righteous don't you think?

The fact that you wear this uniform and "I don't want" falls out of your mouth and onto an online forum shows the need for development, maturity, and less entitlement.

Perhaps it is a fail on both sides. You for not meeting requirements - of course you know you need BLC. But also, the leadership for not advising prior to the Board that you would beat CPL until you do meet the required PME.

Either way, you're still at an advantage unless your BN CSM sees this and overturns the decision to promote as someone else suggested.
The fact that the Board is completed, once you're done with BLC, you only have to update your file and wait for promotion orders.

But to not want to learn or do the job is unacceptable.

Don't be that leader. We have enough of those. Be better.
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SPC Kenneth James
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Well I am confused because your heading already says you are a Sgt unless I am missing how much has changed how are you a Sgt but you say that you have to stay a cpl/ spec are you a Sgt because the cut off score and if you are wearing Sgt stripes how are you not getting pay grade I'm so confused
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SGT Mark Seymour
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Boy I don’t know I’ve never refused a promotion in my life. I was always glad to Sapphire responsibilities regardless of pay. I worked my way up to Sargent and had acted at a higher level on many occasions. Take the responsibilities that you now have been given.
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1LT Quartermaster Officer
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SGT (Join to see) I see you have promoted to SGT. Did you complete RASP? I do not see a new beret. How is your attitude going? I hope you love and care for your soldiers better than you view the pay or position. I have been reading some of your other posts. You appear to have skipped E4? I see PFC then SGT. How did that work?
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SPC Robert Bobo
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You only get so many opportunities , to many good people with potential "pass up" opportunities that often don't come around again. Back in the 70s we use to have Acting Jack Sgt that were SP4's the good ones became hard E5 , the weak ones returned to SP4
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