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Can i IG a E8?
11B: Infantryman
Legal Assistant
Investigation
Toxic Leadership
Infantryman
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 73
You wish to file an IG complaint on an E-8? You certainly can. However, be sure you have your facts straight, first. Be prepared, though, that when you contact IG, depending on the reason for the call, they may tell you that your case may not be IG and could very well be EO. Also, be prepared to be told that IG will conduct (if it falls under IG and warrants one) an investigation and only recommend courses of action to the appropriate authorities.
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MSgt Jonathan Stump
CPL John Day - can I get a reference as to where recording a conversation that you are part of on a military installation is illegal?
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MSgt Jonathan Stump
and then, stepping off base to make that same exact phone call is some how now "legal"?
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MSG (Join to see)
CPL John Day everything you said is wrong. And everyone who takes the time to read what you said will be all the more dumb for having read it.
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1SG (Join to see)
Agreed. Everything the CPL said is incorrect. I will say this speak to another senior NCO first and get their advise or call jag if need be. You can do an IG complaint on anyone however, note, if they open a case you gonna need to have your ducks in a row. Examples, times, dates. Witnesses if need be etc. if you need to get some advise as to if it’s IG or EO feel free to reach out to me.... 1SG BMSG (Join to see)
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You can file an IG on anyone. Whether or not you should or if it will be taken seriously is another matter.
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CMSgt Martin Church
Yes - Anyone can file a complaint against anyone, if they feel justified. But, be sure in your complaint you have proof regarding your complaint and that is NOT a personality Conflict, which is so often to case. You will have to put it in writing, so it would Behoove you to write a DRAFT, before contacting your local IG. It would be prudent for you to contact your First Sergeant, First for guidance. Also, be sure you follow your Chain of Command, beginning with your Immediate Supervisor, then your First Sergeant, Commander and etc. Normally these problems can be resolved at this level. That will probably be the first question any IG will ask you, have you tried to resolve your dispute with your Unit. I am surprised that a SSGT wasn't aware of his Chain of Command - First. Good Luck.
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SFC (Join to see)
COL John Hudson I would also add that when someone counsels you in writing, they should tell you why they didn't talk to you like a man, first.
Yep, I'm salty about being told I was "spreading hate and discontent".....in writing..... when my subordinates told me I went out of my way to say the decisions higher was making were a good idea.
Yep, I'm salty about being told I was "spreading hate and discontent".....in writing..... when my subordinates told me I went out of my way to say the decisions higher was making were a good idea.
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Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis
SFC (Join to see) - ...wait...what? Sarge, did you actually say that you ENDORSED decision a higher command authority made, and was given council in writing? Would I be correct in presuming that the decisions were ones made by the (now) Prior Administration? If that is the case, you might actually have a complaint. I'm truly curious.
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SFC (Join to see)
Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis no, Sir, it was the new authority, about their new project. (I will state here, too, that it WAS a good idea, to make things fair for everyone involved, even though it made my job harder, in theory, though I'm doing better since it happened anyway. I'm a recruiter, and we have assigned areas. My area was the biggest, but I didn't realize by how much until we started the project. I had the capability to enlist twice as many people as a few others, but we all had the same individual mission, so it was kinda uncool, so as an adult I wanted it changed to be right) They were told by someone that I was doing something, or saying something, perhaps saying things in a certain way, to make it seem like I was totally going against their plan. It was that vague, and literally had the phrase "hate and discontent"
It was a real surprise, because when I got pulled into his office, I thought they were giving me the next leadership position.
I think they felt betrayed by a perceived breach of keeping confidence, but everyone knew what we were doing, and how we were doing it.
It was a real surprise, because when I got pulled into his office, I thought they were giving me the next leadership position.
I think they felt betrayed by a perceived breach of keeping confidence, but everyone knew what we were doing, and how we were doing it.
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GySgt Kenneth Pepper
SFC (Join to see) - A very wise friend of mine had a saying that fits this situation perfectly: "no good deed goes unpunished."
Having walked a mile in your moccasins as a recruiter I can tell you one thing I learned; As a "canvassing recruiter" (one who only serves 1 tour and goes back to your regular MOS), the career recruiters don't care what you think, even if it is based on solid data and undeniable evidence of fact. You are an expendable and replaceable asset.
My advice; make your monthly mission by the 20th and have at least one or two lined up for the next month. Do that and you will have a successful tour and will likely be promoted as a thank you.
If you are interested I have a classic closer that worked at least 20 times while I was on the street.
Having walked a mile in your moccasins as a recruiter I can tell you one thing I learned; As a "canvassing recruiter" (one who only serves 1 tour and goes back to your regular MOS), the career recruiters don't care what you think, even if it is based on solid data and undeniable evidence of fact. You are an expendable and replaceable asset.
My advice; make your monthly mission by the 20th and have at least one or two lined up for the next month. Do that and you will have a successful tour and will likely be promoted as a thank you.
If you are interested I have a classic closer that worked at least 20 times while I was on the street.
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As someone who has a 2-1 record with IG Assistance claims, here is what you need to know:
+ Have an actual grievance that describes how a regulation, policy, or law was broken
+ Use the IG's Assistance Form
+ List the grievance objectively; use the 5 Ws. For example, "At 0937 on January 5th, 2020, at the Battalion Motorpool, MSG Smith violated regulation AR 123-45, Chapter 15-3, "quote applicable regulation" in that he [list exactly what the person in question did].
+ State what you want to happen or what you want the OIG to do. For example, "I would like for MSG Smith to reverse his decision with regards to his violation of the regulation listed above, and to be aware of Army regulations in the future." Make sure it is lawful, ethical, and possible for the person to do.
- Do NOT use the IG to complain that something isn't "Fair." The Army is not about "fair." Neither is Life.
- Do NOT make things up, misrepresent facts (ie, lie), or embellish facts
- Do NOT get emotional. It won't help.
So make sure you actually have a case to present to the IG. If you are just complaining, don't waste anyone's time; it's not worth it. If you don't follow the advice I gave above, expect to get shot down quickly. Frivolous IG complaints will not sit well with your chain of command, and while retribution is illegal, you may end up having a bad time for the rest of your assignment in your unit. First Sergeants, especially those who are experienced, will ensure you have a bad time, and it will be totally legit. Choose your battles carefully.
+ Have an actual grievance that describes how a regulation, policy, or law was broken
+ Use the IG's Assistance Form
+ List the grievance objectively; use the 5 Ws. For example, "At 0937 on January 5th, 2020, at the Battalion Motorpool, MSG Smith violated regulation AR 123-45, Chapter 15-3, "quote applicable regulation" in that he [list exactly what the person in question did].
+ State what you want to happen or what you want the OIG to do. For example, "I would like for MSG Smith to reverse his decision with regards to his violation of the regulation listed above, and to be aware of Army regulations in the future." Make sure it is lawful, ethical, and possible for the person to do.
- Do NOT use the IG to complain that something isn't "Fair." The Army is not about "fair." Neither is Life.
- Do NOT make things up, misrepresent facts (ie, lie), or embellish facts
- Do NOT get emotional. It won't help.
So make sure you actually have a case to present to the IG. If you are just complaining, don't waste anyone's time; it's not worth it. If you don't follow the advice I gave above, expect to get shot down quickly. Frivolous IG complaints will not sit well with your chain of command, and while retribution is illegal, you may end up having a bad time for the rest of your assignment in your unit. First Sergeants, especially those who are experienced, will ensure you have a bad time, and it will be totally legit. Choose your battles carefully.
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This is a surprising question from an SSG.
Always exhaust your chain of command first. IG's first question to you is probably going to be: did you discuss the issue with your 1SG (if he's not the issue in this case) or Commander.
I got an IG against me from a solider I started the separation packet on for missed attendance. Probably because I gave him his rights of recourse during his exit counseling.
Fast forward a MSG from the IG calls me during our next Battle Assembly and wants to hear my side of the story. Cut to the chase the MSG asks where the soldier is currently and I reply, "Well, he's not here now, so he's got an additional four more "U's". So instead of fighting nine he's now fighting thirteen "U's".
He says thank you sir, that is all...............
Always exhaust one's chain of command first. You have to line your ducks up.
I have seen toxic leadership IG's go in favor of the plaintiff, but you need to be specific, and it needs to be shown the soldier is being picked on relative to other soldiers of similar rank and duties.
I also took a SSG aside that felt they were being alienated by fellow NCO's. She pulled the gender card and was going to go EO/IG, etc... However my 1SG was female as well, and I let the SSG know that other NCO's in the company saw problems in her leadership approach as well. So between the female 1SG, and other NCO's not in the same platoon making similar observations maybe a new angle of observation of her actions needed to be conducted before going to the IG.
Always exhaust your chain of command first. IG's first question to you is probably going to be: did you discuss the issue with your 1SG (if he's not the issue in this case) or Commander.
I got an IG against me from a solider I started the separation packet on for missed attendance. Probably because I gave him his rights of recourse during his exit counseling.
Fast forward a MSG from the IG calls me during our next Battle Assembly and wants to hear my side of the story. Cut to the chase the MSG asks where the soldier is currently and I reply, "Well, he's not here now, so he's got an additional four more "U's". So instead of fighting nine he's now fighting thirteen "U's".
He says thank you sir, that is all...............
Always exhaust one's chain of command first. You have to line your ducks up.
I have seen toxic leadership IG's go in favor of the plaintiff, but you need to be specific, and it needs to be shown the soldier is being picked on relative to other soldiers of similar rank and duties.
I also took a SSG aside that felt they were being alienated by fellow NCO's. She pulled the gender card and was going to go EO/IG, etc... However my 1SG was female as well, and I let the SSG know that other NCO's in the company saw problems in her leadership approach as well. So between the female 1SG, and other NCO's not in the same platoon making similar observations maybe a new angle of observation of her actions needed to be conducted before going to the IG.
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Just FYI:
FILING COMPLAINTS
The Office of The Inspector General (OTIG) makes it convenient to file a complaint. It is recommended you contact your local IG office to initiate a request for assistance, or to file a complaint because that office is in the best position to efficiently resolve them.
WHEN ARE IG COMPLAINTS APPROPRIATE?
Individuals should attempt to resolve fraud, waste, and abuse (FWA) issues and personal complaints at the lowest possible level, using command channels before elevating them to the next higher level or the OTIG.
Further, complaints must be promptly filed within IG, command, or other grievance channels. IG's may dismiss a complaint if there is no FWA, recognizable wrong or violation of law, regulation, or policy. Also, complaints should be received in a timely manner.
FILING COMPLAINTS
The Office of The Inspector General (OTIG) makes it convenient to file a complaint. It is recommended you contact your local IG office to initiate a request for assistance, or to file a complaint because that office is in the best position to efficiently resolve them.
WHEN ARE IG COMPLAINTS APPROPRIATE?
Individuals should attempt to resolve fraud, waste, and abuse (FWA) issues and personal complaints at the lowest possible level, using command channels before elevating them to the next higher level or the OTIG.
Further, complaints must be promptly filed within IG, command, or other grievance channels. IG's may dismiss a complaint if there is no FWA, recognizable wrong or violation of law, regulation, or policy. Also, complaints should be received in a timely manner.
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Yau Absolutely can, but make sure you do your homework first. As a Senior NCO and now currently 1SG i have seen IG complaints go no where because it was more hurt feelings rather than an actual legitamate IG complaint. I encourage Soldiers to IG if it is actually warranted
Because as a 1SG that helps me too. Because if they call me and I find out i am wrong it gives me the opportunity to fix my self as a leader.
Because as a 1SG that helps me too. Because if they call me and I find out i am wrong it gives me the opportunity to fix my self as a leader.
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SFC (Join to see)
I gotta say the "it gives me the opportunity to fix myself as a leader" is much too rare, in my experience.
I always tell people I hate to be wrong. Not the arroga, I'm always right, but I want to actually be right. I've also found that trying to get right makes people mad. I just want to know the truth.
I always tell people I hate to be wrong. Not the arroga, I'm always right, but I want to actually be right. I've also found that trying to get right makes people mad. I just want to know the truth.
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I did as an E-5 altough the CSM asked if he could have the two weeks until I turned it in at IG complaint time to remedy the situation (and he did) I never had to go any further.
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SGT Herbert Bollum
CPL John Day I was careful to avoid any problems before and after as he was my own 1st Sgt.
I placed copies of the write up on all of the COC desks during lunch(showing CC:)for each. Co /1st Sgt/BN CO/IG. I knew it could be a career ending move,but he was blatantly unprofessional and it was about behavior towards a female private in my squad.
I placed copies of the write up on all of the COC desks during lunch(showing CC:)for each. Co /1st Sgt/BN CO/IG. I knew it could be a career ending move,but he was blatantly unprofessional and it was about behavior towards a female private in my squad.
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As others have already answered, yes. However, I want to mention that it's disrespectful to refer to someone by pay grade rather than rank.
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SSG (Join to see)
of course being professional is important. I agree. You have a MSG and you have an E-8. The MSG is what you get called when you take care of your Soldiers. E-8 is when you are a terrible NCo in that pay grade. Of course, if I was addressing that NCO directly, I would refer to them as MSG. But just because you pin MSG, doesn’t actually make you a real MSGCPL John Day
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There is a difference between "Can I', and "Should I". You Certainly can. If you DO file one, you had better have a valid complaint AND have all your Shit in one Sock. If you don't, you should NOT.
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