Posted on Jan 17, 2020
Can my Commander chapter me for failing height/weight after I was already counseled and being chaptered was not in the Plan Of Action?
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Before thanksgiving I was taped and passed. Then after the holidays and after coming back from leave. I was taped again and this time failed by 1%. This is my second time failing in 12 months. I have been on profile due to recently being diagnosed with asthma and I have a year to get it under control. After two days I was pulled into my commanders office and told that she was gonna give me a second chance and only be barred for re-enlistment. I received my counseling that I failed and my plan of action was to see a nutritionist and all the regular things that come with failing height and weight. She told me and my NCO my bar paperwork will be ready after the weekend and I left.
A week later I was told the night before I had height and weight in the morning. I lost 7 LBS but was still 1% over.
Two weeks later on a Thursday I was on mission for the whole day and got the text that remedial was at 1630 and OCPs were okay to wear. I was done with the mission at 1605 and went straight to remedial. I even called my NCO to let her know I did not have my PTs and I was just getting done with mission. She said that there was a text sent out okaying OCPs. So I did remedial in OCPs that day.
The next day I had to take my wife to the ER due to extreme headaches. She was told a couple days prior that her optic nerve looks a bit swollen and she has been stressing about it due to it being such a serious thing. I told my NCO first thing in the morning that that’s where I’ll be after we are released from work and I might not make it to remedial, he gave the okay and had nothing else to say.
The weekend goes by and on Monday after final formation I was pulled back into my commanders office. She said she will be starting the chapter process due to me showing up to remedial in the “wrong uniform” and not being at remedial the next day and letting my NCO know at 1630 I will not make it.
She then goes on to say that she has not heard anything but bad things about me for the past two weeks. When I tried to explain the situation she was not hearing it. She then looked to my NCOs pretty much for approval and what she should do.
The last thing she said was that she was still going to proceed with the chapter but if she hears from my NCOS that I’m doing a good job she will pull the packet.
I have height and weight again this next week and I know for a fact I will pass.
Can she still chapter me for failing height and weight. I was already counseled for it and me being chaptered was not in the Plan Of Action?
This all seems to be branching out due to my “work performance”(ie; Air assault school & PT) but I can only do so much due to my asthma. When I did tell her I’m on mission all the time. She said “missions don’t really matter”.
I plan on going to IG to see what they can do for me but any insight or advice will be greatly appreciated.
A week later I was told the night before I had height and weight in the morning. I lost 7 LBS but was still 1% over.
Two weeks later on a Thursday I was on mission for the whole day and got the text that remedial was at 1630 and OCPs were okay to wear. I was done with the mission at 1605 and went straight to remedial. I even called my NCO to let her know I did not have my PTs and I was just getting done with mission. She said that there was a text sent out okaying OCPs. So I did remedial in OCPs that day.
The next day I had to take my wife to the ER due to extreme headaches. She was told a couple days prior that her optic nerve looks a bit swollen and she has been stressing about it due to it being such a serious thing. I told my NCO first thing in the morning that that’s where I’ll be after we are released from work and I might not make it to remedial, he gave the okay and had nothing else to say.
The weekend goes by and on Monday after final formation I was pulled back into my commanders office. She said she will be starting the chapter process due to me showing up to remedial in the “wrong uniform” and not being at remedial the next day and letting my NCO know at 1630 I will not make it.
She then goes on to say that she has not heard anything but bad things about me for the past two weeks. When I tried to explain the situation she was not hearing it. She then looked to my NCOs pretty much for approval and what she should do.
The last thing she said was that she was still going to proceed with the chapter but if she hears from my NCOS that I’m doing a good job she will pull the packet.
I have height and weight again this next week and I know for a fact I will pass.
Can she still chapter me for failing height and weight. I was already counseled for it and me being chaptered was not in the Plan Of Action?
This all seems to be branching out due to my “work performance”(ie; Air assault school & PT) but I can only do so much due to my asthma. When I did tell her I’m on mission all the time. She said “missions don’t really matter”.
I plan on going to IG to see what they can do for me but any insight or advice will be greatly appreciated.
88M: Motor Transport Operator
Fort Campbell
Height and Weight
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 14
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Can the commander do this? Yes. Your Commander is required by reg to initiate separation if the soldier fails to meet table weight and body fat standards during the 12 month period following the removal from the weight control program.
"Initiation of separation action" means a separation action must be started and presented to the separation authority. Separation itself is not mandatory. All levels of command below the separation authority are free to make any recommendation they deem appropriate, to include retention.
It sounds like they either missed that this was the second time in 12 months, or they misinterpreted the reg about initiating separation action vs recommending retention.
Not stating this on the counseling/plan of action does not change what the reg says, it just has to be provided in writing before you are separated.
Your CO, BN and BDE can recommend retention, based on how well you do your job.
"Initiation of separation action" means a separation action must be started and presented to the separation authority. Separation itself is not mandatory. All levels of command below the separation authority are free to make any recommendation they deem appropriate, to include retention.
It sounds like they either missed that this was the second time in 12 months, or they misinterpreted the reg about initiating separation action vs recommending retention.
Not stating this on the counseling/plan of action does not change what the reg says, it just has to be provided in writing before you are separated.
Your CO, BN and BDE can recommend retention, based on how well you do your job.
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Doesn't sound like an IG issue to me. First, pass your next tape test and that will take care of that. Second, speak with the NCOs who cleared you to wear OCPs and miss remedial. Ask if they reported their clearance. If so, when? If not, why not? Based on your conversations with the NCOs, you can weigh your next steps. Pass the tape and you might not need to do anything. If you don't know what to do, talk to your chaplain.
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Fort Campbell has always been strict about height and weight, when I was there I went on the program for a week or two or being 2 lbs over weight limit. I never relied on the tape measure or caliper and felt both those methods were a fraud to circumvent the standard set. And I have to say, never saw or heard a civilian physician say "well, lets try a tape or caliper measure". Also, in all honesty your asthma has zero to do with losing weight as you don't have to exercise to lose weight. It helps but you can lose weight via portion control alone. As for remedial PT, you can't avoid that at Fort Campbell if your on the overweight program.......they are very strict and have been very strict for a long time. I served there in the mid-1980s. Good to hear they are still strict on it. Last your in breach of your enlistment agreement by not being within standards of height and weight, they have no choice but to kick you out if you do not get it under control. IG won't do anything as your 1SG and CO are following exactly what the Army's policy is in regards to enlistment standards.
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Good morning SPC..... From reading what you wrote, it seems like you had two height and weight done in a short period of time. It was bad to do one after the holidays but it is what it is. Since you failed, the commander had to initiate a flag which basically suspends everything from awards, promotions, schools, reenlistments, etc until you pass again. I wouldn't worry about the chapter for body fat because, you have to take corrective measures before you initiate separation unless you failed it twice. It's up to the Commander if they want to chapter or not. Regulations are just guidelines. If it's due to performance based, they will have to have long paperwork or counselings to back it up. If they don't have those supporting documents, JAG will reject it...... Advice to you, if you start getting counseled for something that happened a long time ago, don't sign. Google and look at AR 135-178 Enlisted Administrative Separation dated 7 Nov 2017. Read chapter 9 performance and 15 for body fat...... I see that you mentioned asthma. My strong advice to you, is to Google and look in AR 40-501 Standard of Medical Fitness. This regulation determines if you are fit for duty. I think you fall under either chapter 2 or 3 whichever say for retention, separation, or retirement and find out what it say about asthma. If your condition fit the description in the regulation, you will need to get a P3 for lungs and get the PEB/MEB process initiated for possible medical retirement. If you have any questions write me.
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