Posted on Dec 10, 2017
Can Post Traumatic Stress Disorder ("PTSD") develop in non-combat situations? Can fighting against actions of fraud, waste and abuse?
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Fighting against his poor and negligent leadership, on each and every step of his assignment, in almost a decade and a half of active service, an officer was errantly discharged to cover-up the mistakes of his leadership, clear thru to GOs. Fighting the system; this officer was diagnosed with PTSD. Was this diagnosis another cover-up or can PTSD develop in peacetime?
Mental Health
PTSD
Commanders
Legal Services
Fraud
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 112
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My wife has the opinion that I have “problems”. I participated in remains recovery from Jonestown and during OIF I was kept stateside and had to welcome home several friends horizontal instead of vertical. Now I have a problem with crying. I think it’s from the concussions and subdural hematoma I had. She thinks PTSD, but I never saw combat
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
Steven; you could have developed PTSD from the trauma of welcoming home friends in horizontal versus vertical positions. Such traumatic stress syndrome doesn't originate in battle, but it grows into a disorder slowly that by ourselves the behavioral changes are unnoticeable.
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PTSD is a general term that has to do with stress-traits being exhibited after a traumatic event. Traumatic events don't only happen in combat.
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CH (CPT) James L. Machado Workman
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana Most certainly PTSD can delvelop outside of a combat situation. I just wrote a blog about this on website:
http://www.olivebranchtherapync.com/single-post/2018/07/13/LIVING-ON-THE-EDGE-Life-with-Non-Combat-Post-Traumatic-Stress-Disorder
http://www.olivebranchtherapync.com/single-post/2018/07/13/LIVING-ON-THE-EDGE-Life-with-Non-Combat-Post-Traumatic-Stress-Disorder
LIVING ON THE EDGE: Life with Non-Combat Post-Traumatic Stress Disorde | Family Counseling |...
Bob’s family and friends notice that he can easily become agitated. Certain situations trigger a reaction in Bob that those around him don’t understand. He doe
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CH (CPT) James L. Machado Workman
Now-in relationship to failure of the command the DSM 5 does mention that the inability to trust authority figures is one of the criteria used in the process diagnosing PTSD. I don’t understand the DSM 5 to say that failure of command alone is a traumatic situation that could lead to PTSD. And let me add a disclaimer here and say that if the failure of command leads to the death or perceived threat to someone under a subordinate’s like lower ranking enlisted or civilians then yes this clearly meets one of the criteria for diagnosing PTSD.
However, to answer the question as I understand what’s being asked I would say that-from my anecdotal experience-a failure of command outside of the combat zone in which a subordinate has been somehow victimized could be significant enough to cause one to feel traumatized. What you mentioned above about the parental relationship is the same example I use in couples therapy when referring to a betrayal. In the case of coulples it’s usually an affair. In couples therapy that is often referred to as an “adult attachment trauma.” This type of trauma could cause an adult to experience the same type of distrust that one might experience in one’s parental relationship. This leaves the child and adult feeling abandoned, insecure, distrusting and often isolated. It colors the way in which the traumatized adult approaches future relationships. I think this is often what happens when a member of the military feels betrayed by command. It’s the nature of betrayal of the “intimate relationship.” It’s the violation of the vows we swore to one another and our country that contributes to the feelings of abandonement and betrayal. I am currently working with a few clients who report that they have had this experience. It is clinically significant in that these clients report that they have difficulty trusting their civilian employers or those in authority over them leading the clients to feel they have to take matters in their own hands. They are preimptively defensive-waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting to get fired, they bristle when receiving feedback etc. These clients often report that their coworkers and managers experience them a “standoffish”, guarded, rigid, distrusting and cold. Truth is-these folks are wounded.
However, to answer the question as I understand what’s being asked I would say that-from my anecdotal experience-a failure of command outside of the combat zone in which a subordinate has been somehow victimized could be significant enough to cause one to feel traumatized. What you mentioned above about the parental relationship is the same example I use in couples therapy when referring to a betrayal. In the case of coulples it’s usually an affair. In couples therapy that is often referred to as an “adult attachment trauma.” This type of trauma could cause an adult to experience the same type of distrust that one might experience in one’s parental relationship. This leaves the child and adult feeling abandoned, insecure, distrusting and often isolated. It colors the way in which the traumatized adult approaches future relationships. I think this is often what happens when a member of the military feels betrayed by command. It’s the nature of betrayal of the “intimate relationship.” It’s the violation of the vows we swore to one another and our country that contributes to the feelings of abandonement and betrayal. I am currently working with a few clients who report that they have had this experience. It is clinically significant in that these clients report that they have difficulty trusting their civilian employers or those in authority over them leading the clients to feel they have to take matters in their own hands. They are preimptively defensive-waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting to get fired, they bristle when receiving feedback etc. These clients often report that their coworkers and managers experience them a “standoffish”, guarded, rigid, distrusting and cold. Truth is-these folks are wounded.
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Of course it can. It is a result of extreme emotional distress, especially that which was brought on over a period of time.
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Yes, PTSD can and does happen in peace. Training accidents, sexual assualt, witnessing or being a victim of a violent crime, terroristic events, are some common things. Usually PTSD is caused by being exposed to a traumatic event or reported exposure to events or actions.
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PO1 Barbara Matthews
I can't say whether or not your specific circumstances meets the criteria of PTSD. You would have to be evaluated by a psychiatrist. There are symptoms of PTSD such as hyper-vigilance, reliving the events, insomnia, night terrors, anxiety, guilt, anger and a few others. For more info Google "DSM-5 Criteria for diagnosis of PTSD".
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
Absolutely right; PTSD is a condition which develops following any kind of traumatic experience. This trauma can be during war or even in peacetime operations; traumatic stress can develop in the workplace or even in personal life. The doctors suggest that in attempting to cure acute PTSD it is vital to understand what really happened before, during and after the traumatic experience. In the military, a proper, unbiased and untarnished report of investigation that is based on the evidence in the case is of the utmost importance. When such reports of investigation are not on-file or have been deliberately hidden in a case then, curing an acute PTSD is close to impossible and this can give birth to speculation which can result in grave consequences.
In a military whistleblower case, the Service IG failed to provide reports of investigation as stipulated under law. The Complainant kept fighting the corrupt agency, but to no avail. Then, over a decade later, the NARA got the Service to release the records to that Whistleblower. In these records there were no reports of investigation either. On questioning the Service and the Agency the Complainant was told that in Oct 2002 he was sent for an EMHE after which the Commander who ordered the EMHE pleaded ignorance of the law. The Complainant was not satisfied with this response, because military commanders with troops under their charge cannot be ignorant of laws that affect the troops. After haggling and unsuccessfully trying to convince the Complainant that ignorance of the law is an acceptable excuse in the military, the Agency suggests now that the referral for the EMHE was an administrative error. The Service IG further suggests that the EMHE was not committed in reprisal against the Complainant for submitting an IG complaint against the chain of command and that the EMHE was not premeditated. The Service IG has no clue concerning the rest of this case, because the Service IG never actually investigated this military whistleblower case. Again; there are no reports of investigation on file either, based on the records and the Service IG avoids the Complainant on issues outside of the EMHE.
The evidence is this:
1. The XO told doctors, on the day the EMHE was committed, ahead of the EMHE, that the Complainant must be psychotic or manic for submitting a 130+ page IG complaint against his COC (chain of command) in Feb 02. The EMHE was committed in Oct 02. The IG complaint submitted by the Complainant was only eight pages.
2. Assuming that the Commander was ignorant of the law then, were doctors, the TJAG, the Surgeon General and others available to this Commander ignorant of the law too? The question is relevant.
3. Service IG claims the EMHE was not premeditated, yet there is evidence that proves that the Commander recommended the MHE in May 02 alike to the precise manner in which the EMHE was committed against the Complainant in Oct 02; not a difference at all. The is another MHE to which the Complainant was committed in Oct 01 that resembles the recommended MHE in May 02. However, there is no reports of investigation in this case from the Service IG.
4. None of the other reprisals and adverse reactions against the Complainant are recorded in the file of the Service IG.
I want you The Veterans of the U.S. Armed Forces to study the above and suggest or recommend to me a course of action to correct this Complainant's military record.
Thanks.
In a military whistleblower case, the Service IG failed to provide reports of investigation as stipulated under law. The Complainant kept fighting the corrupt agency, but to no avail. Then, over a decade later, the NARA got the Service to release the records to that Whistleblower. In these records there were no reports of investigation either. On questioning the Service and the Agency the Complainant was told that in Oct 2002 he was sent for an EMHE after which the Commander who ordered the EMHE pleaded ignorance of the law. The Complainant was not satisfied with this response, because military commanders with troops under their charge cannot be ignorant of laws that affect the troops. After haggling and unsuccessfully trying to convince the Complainant that ignorance of the law is an acceptable excuse in the military, the Agency suggests now that the referral for the EMHE was an administrative error. The Service IG further suggests that the EMHE was not committed in reprisal against the Complainant for submitting an IG complaint against the chain of command and that the EMHE was not premeditated. The Service IG has no clue concerning the rest of this case, because the Service IG never actually investigated this military whistleblower case. Again; there are no reports of investigation on file either, based on the records and the Service IG avoids the Complainant on issues outside of the EMHE.
The evidence is this:
1. The XO told doctors, on the day the EMHE was committed, ahead of the EMHE, that the Complainant must be psychotic or manic for submitting a 130+ page IG complaint against his COC (chain of command) in Feb 02. The EMHE was committed in Oct 02. The IG complaint submitted by the Complainant was only eight pages.
2. Assuming that the Commander was ignorant of the law then, were doctors, the TJAG, the Surgeon General and others available to this Commander ignorant of the law too? The question is relevant.
3. Service IG claims the EMHE was not premeditated, yet there is evidence that proves that the Commander recommended the MHE in May 02 alike to the precise manner in which the EMHE was committed against the Complainant in Oct 02; not a difference at all. The is another MHE to which the Complainant was committed in Oct 01 that resembles the recommended MHE in May 02. However, there is no reports of investigation in this case from the Service IG.
4. None of the other reprisals and adverse reactions against the Complainant are recorded in the file of the Service IG.
I want you The Veterans of the U.S. Armed Forces to study the above and suggest or recommend to me a course of action to correct this Complainant's military record.
Thanks.
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PTSD can come from a huge plethora of causes. ANYTHING that causes a traumatic event in someone's life can initiate PTSD. Rape, accidents, witnessing (anywhere within your visual perception) any tragedy, mugging, stabbing, drug use, mass shootings, bombings, molestation, abuse (physical, mental, drugs), neglect, murder, and many many more 'events' that you may experience or see. I've ONLY scratched the surface, but I'm sure you get my meaning.
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I think its possible to develop PTSD in peace time, because there are types of training and mission critical operations that are related to actual combat stress. But for being lazy on your job or not performing your job to set standards, then no. That is miss using PTSD to fill an answer void.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
We are not discussing substandard performance; we are actually debating reprisals for submitting a Complaint to the Service IG, after which the Service IG suggests that the Commander under whom those reprisals were committed pleaded ignorance of the law to avoid liability and to skip punishment for violating the law. The Service IG accepts such lawlessness, because the IG failed to investigate this case. Thanks Randy.
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SPC Randy Torgerson
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana - Ok, but again, not PTSD. People in all types of jobs make complaints that go unanswered or investigated. Its disappointing sure. But should not be considered PTSD.
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Your description is a bit too vague to answer definitively, and couldn’t be answered definitively except by a BHO who had examined the person in question. However, here are the criteria used to make the diagnosis:
Criterion A (required): must be exposed to death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual of threatened sexual violence by either 1) direct exposure, witnessing the trauma, 3) learning that a relative or close friend was exposed to the trauma or, 4) through indirect exposure to aversive details of the trauma (e.g. first responders, medics, etc). Unless the person in question was exposed to death, threatened death (such as a mortar attack or fire fight), actual or threatened serious injury (maybe others threatened his life or health?), then he wouldn't technically meet the criteria for PTSD, though he could exhibit any of the stress related symptoms below.
Criterion B (required): re-experiencing of the trauma through unwanted, upsetting memories, or nightmares, or flashbacks, or emotional distress after exposure to reminders, or physical reactivity (e.g. hyperventilation, racing heart, etc) after exposure to traumas. One or more of these must be present.
Criterion C (required): avoidance of trauma related stimuli by avoiding trauma related thoughts/feelings, or trauma related reminds. One or both must be present
Criterion D (required): negative thoughts or feelings that began or got worse after the trauma such as memory problems about the trauma, negative view of yourself or the world, excessive blame of self or others for causing the trauma, negative emotions, loss of interest in doing things, feeling isolated or alone, problems with having positive emotions or enjoying fun things. Must have two or more of these
Criterion E (required): arousal and reactivity that started or got worse after the trauma such as irritability or aggression, risky or destructive behavior (speeding, drinking, etc), hypervigilance (always watching), larger than normal startle reaction, problems concentrating, or problems sleeping
Finally, all the above must last at least one month and must cause the person emotional upset/distress or problems getting along socially, at work, school, etc.
Your friend, if distressed, should seek a behavioral health consultation. At the very least, there may be an occupational stress disorder (not the same at PTSD) or other issue present.
Criterion A (required): must be exposed to death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual of threatened sexual violence by either 1) direct exposure, witnessing the trauma, 3) learning that a relative or close friend was exposed to the trauma or, 4) through indirect exposure to aversive details of the trauma (e.g. first responders, medics, etc). Unless the person in question was exposed to death, threatened death (such as a mortar attack or fire fight), actual or threatened serious injury (maybe others threatened his life or health?), then he wouldn't technically meet the criteria for PTSD, though he could exhibit any of the stress related symptoms below.
Criterion B (required): re-experiencing of the trauma through unwanted, upsetting memories, or nightmares, or flashbacks, or emotional distress after exposure to reminders, or physical reactivity (e.g. hyperventilation, racing heart, etc) after exposure to traumas. One or more of these must be present.
Criterion C (required): avoidance of trauma related stimuli by avoiding trauma related thoughts/feelings, or trauma related reminds. One or both must be present
Criterion D (required): negative thoughts or feelings that began or got worse after the trauma such as memory problems about the trauma, negative view of yourself or the world, excessive blame of self or others for causing the trauma, negative emotions, loss of interest in doing things, feeling isolated or alone, problems with having positive emotions or enjoying fun things. Must have two or more of these
Criterion E (required): arousal and reactivity that started or got worse after the trauma such as irritability or aggression, risky or destructive behavior (speeding, drinking, etc), hypervigilance (always watching), larger than normal startle reaction, problems concentrating, or problems sleeping
Finally, all the above must last at least one month and must cause the person emotional upset/distress or problems getting along socially, at work, school, etc.
Your friend, if distressed, should seek a behavioral health consultation. At the very least, there may be an occupational stress disorder (not the same at PTSD) or other issue present.
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Definitely, I have seen airman assigned to assisting with the aftermath of aircraft accidents suffer severe incidents of PTSD. But, that is not the only incidents i have seen. Officers commanding units where a suicide has occurred feel a great deal of responsibility feeling they should have prevented it. There are other instances that cause PTSD that are not as severe, but it is still PTSD.
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PTSD is a tough condition to diagnose. It can be caused by any number of causes and one is prolonged exposure to a situation out of the persons control. For others in non combat related cases it is sexual trauma, civil service such as EMTs and police officers, and those that have faded life’s worst such as loss of a loved one or even worse. (Burn victim, amputations, etc.) PTSD is he brains inability to process that trauma and how it manifests itself is different in each case. If they are diagnosing him/her with it, it may be a blessing because it is a minimum 50% disability rating. It is better than getting pushed out with no compensation as if the situation was being pushed under the rug. It is also possible that the two are completely unrelated and that his PTSD is due to other cercumstances that are not being mentioned. No one can really know unless they knew the soldier and had all of the facts.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
Thanks; your information is intelligence Chief. My friend had a bout again last night and I had to rush out of town to help calm him down. My friend cannot seem to forget his trauma from years ago, because the Army is not transparent about his case, even today (14 years after the incident).
My friend showed me evidence he received from the Army Medical Command thru the NARA. This evidence proves that my friend was interned in a Psychiatric Ward for eight days in reprisal for submitting an IG complaint against members of his chain of command. The Army is unwilling to accept this evidence, which is in medical records.
Another piece of evidence proves that the USAIG had his case closed arbitrarily by his Command IG in less than a month after he submitted it. The Army denies my friend's case was ever compromised. The evidence also proves that the Command premeditated the internment of my friend immediately after his case was compromised. The Army denies this evidence too.
My friend wants me to tell him how he can get justice in such a situation, where the Institute of the Army denies the evidence in his case? Your guidance is worth gold for me for my friend; he deserves his dues, I feel. Thanks.
My friend showed me evidence he received from the Army Medical Command thru the NARA. This evidence proves that my friend was interned in a Psychiatric Ward for eight days in reprisal for submitting an IG complaint against members of his chain of command. The Army is unwilling to accept this evidence, which is in medical records.
Another piece of evidence proves that the USAIG had his case closed arbitrarily by his Command IG in less than a month after he submitted it. The Army denies my friend's case was ever compromised. The evidence also proves that the Command premeditated the internment of my friend immediately after his case was compromised. The Army denies this evidence too.
My friend wants me to tell him how he can get justice in such a situation, where the Institute of the Army denies the evidence in his case? Your guidance is worth gold for me for my friend; he deserves his dues, I feel. Thanks.
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CW2 William Jones
I am not a legal authority so I will not try to give legal advice. What I can say is that you need to seek a lawyer that is able to handle a case of this nature. There are some well versed on Army appeals and issues related to Military coverups.
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