Posted on Feb 3, 2016
LtCol Mac McCarty
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
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Edited >1 y ago
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LtCol Mac McCarty, SPC(P) (E-4) is not a Army rank, however its just a status. The SPC (P) is promotable for Sergeant, but must make cut-off points to make Sergeant (E-5).
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
>1 y
Thanks, SFC Davis. We have a similar situation with regard to E-9 and classifications, but never knew that you folks has something like that with E-8s.
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CDR Systems Engineer
CDR (Join to see)
>1 y
CSM Charles Hayden - SOPA: Senior Officer Present Afloat. (Can also be used in context as Senior Officer Present Ashore)
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CSM Charles Hayden
CSM Charles Hayden
>1 y
CDR (Join to see) Got it, thanks. Like the Army's 'TC' being 'tank cdr' or 'truck commander' with responsibilities and a choice of seats in the vehicle.
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SPC James Dollins
SPC James Dollins
>1 y
SGT Richard H. - that's the first time I've ever heard of that done. Those are ancient! While I was in they NEVER promoted anyone w/o the Board. I think that was mainly because the board points were the only way you were going to reach cutoff points.
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CMSgt Senior Enlisted Leader
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Hey Sir,
The (P) suffix denotes when one has attended and passed a promotion board making one eligible for the next rank.
e.g., SPC(P) means that they are eligible for SGT. SGT(P) is eligible for SSG and so on.

The AF, informally, does the opposite.
e.g., MSgt(S) denotes that one is about to tack on MSgt (Select=S) but is still a TSgt. TSgt(S) is about to promote to TSgt, etc.

Since it is not an official rank, we have a running joke, "What is a MSgt(S)? They are a TSgt." E.g., until they promote, they are what they are. :)
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LtCol Mac McCarty
LtCol Mac McCarty
>1 y
PO1 Andrew Gardiner - In the Marine Corps (and in the other services too, I expect)there is an annual publication known as the Lineal List--referred to as the "Blue Book" because of its cover. It lists the lineal precedence of every officer in the service. For instance, there may be 30 Majors with a date of rank of 1 August, but within that group of 30, they each have a precedence number. So the Major that is number 921 with a date of rank of 1 August is senior to number 922 with the same date of rank. In the Marine Corps, it all starts with your class rank in the Basic School. Annual Promotion Zones are defined as, e.g., "All Majors numbered 326 through 824." Numbers 1-325 are "above the zone and have failed of selection (been passed over at least once.) Numbers 825 and below will not normally be considered for promotion until the next year, although the Secretary of the Navy usually specifies a lower number, e.g. 825-900, that may be looked at. A water-walker in that "below the zone" group, if selected, jumps over all the rest of his peers who had been senior to him, but they are not considered to have failed of selection. That is all that the numbers mean, but when two senior officers get into a pissing contest, I have heard the senior tell the junior (perhaps by only 5 or 6 numbers) to "Go look at the Blue Book and then get back to me."

There is usually only one promotion board for a particular grade each year, so it is selecting the number of officers of a particular rank that can be promoted over the course of the next year. There are laws limiting the number of officers of a particular rank who can be on active duty at any given time,so, once selected, you have to wait until all the people in front of you have been promoted. The Colonel makes BG (going from Col number 12 to BGen number 45), so now a LtCol on the COL list can be promoted, which opens a spot for a Maj to go to LtCol, and so forth. There may also be further similar limitations on branches or staff corps in the Army, Navy and Air Force--I'm not sure. All Officers of Marines are line officers (with some few exceptions, e.g., LDOs or Warrant Officers), so we don't have to put up with that stuff. Is it taken seriously? Yes and no. When it comes to serious stuff, it is and should be taken seriously. Between folks who have been close in rank all their careers, in purely unofficial settings, it depends on the desire of the senior.

As far as frocking goes, it is like this. If an officer is filling a billet that calls for an officer of the next higher rank , once he is selected, his CG may request that the officer be frocked--allowed to wear the rank insignia and use the title of senior rank. He is still carried on the rolls in his permanent grade and is paid in that grade. If some of his peers who were also selected happen to be in billets requiring only their current rank, they have to wait to actually make their number. Let's say that 120 officers were selected to be promoted to Captain, USMC. Lieutenant number 88 is filling a Captain's billet and is frocked. Lieutenant number 44 is in a lieutenant's billet, so he has to wait. In the first month, 12 officers are promoted. Number 44 is still a lieutenant, as is number 88, but 88 is walking around sporting Captain's bars and being called Skipper. The next month 13 through 45 are promoted. Number 44 is still senior to 88, but now only the Blue Book can prove it for sure. That is why a shipmate who has been frocked had better be very gentle with a classmate who is senior, because when the senior makes his number, life can suddenly get very interesting for all concerned if the frocked officer has been feeling his oats with his peers.
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
>1 y
LtCol Mac McCarty - Thanks I was reaching my limits.
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CMSgt Senior Enlisted Leader
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LtCol Mac McCarty -
Hi Sir, I was there from 2004-2006 (back and forth). I was in the J2, holed up doing sneaky peaky shift work ISO "war fighter" mission. I am now across the street from them at SOCOM (aka, "HAPPYCOM"). :)

Have him say hello if he is ever in Tampastan. :)
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LtCol Mac McCarty
LtCol Mac McCarty
>1 y
CMSgt (Join to see) - Will do, Chief Master Sergeant. Tampastan. Been laughing for the last 10 minutes.
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LtCol Mac McCarty
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Edited >1 y ago
Thanks to all who responded, especially the NCOs, Petty Officers, SNCOs and Chiefs (my Dad was a CPhM in WWII, so I learned early on that a good Chief had lots to do with his boss becoming a good officer). What a simple question about a meaningless parenthetical has revealed is that we each have our own way of doing things that works for us. If that assures victory on the battlefield, the only place that really matters in our chosen profession of violence, the Nation will be well served by all. We Marines do respect each of you in our Sister Services. Love, your big brother. Semper Fi!
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Can some of our Army brothers and sisters explain the enlisted rank structure? For instance, what is a SPC(P)? Sergeant...?
MCPO Roger Collins
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All this convinced me that the Navy conventions regarding promotions and Rate (Rank) is the least complicated. Some one in the stratosphere determines the numbers get promotions and the detainees assign based on service needs. At times regardless of Rate.
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LTC Student
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P is for promotable showing the individual has been selected for promotion to the next rank. Where as other services often use S for select, and let that individual where the next rank with the S beside it. For example an instructor I had in CGSC was a LtCol (S) in the AF, in the Army he would have been a MAJ (P).
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LtCol Mac McCarty
LtCol Mac McCarty
>1 y
Having been on a number of promotion lists, waiting to make my number, I understand the desire to pin it on, especially, Major to LtCol. (When I was a 1st Lt in RVN, our S-3 told me, "There are only two ranks in the Marine Corps that wear gold insignia, and neither one can wait to get rid of it!") But, essentially, a Major (P) or LtCol(S) is still "just" a Major, right?
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
>1 y
So the USAF frocks promotable officers and NCOs?
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LTC Student
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LtCol Mac McCarty - Yes Sir, they are getting paid as a MAJ still.
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LTC Student
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LTC Paul Labrador - Yes sir, to the best of my knowledge and working with them with the officers at least.
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1SG Patrick Sims
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It is an E-4 rank, and a throwback from the past that should have don away with years ago. there was a time when the Army had two enlisted ranks---The specialists were set up as technicians and really didn't have any authority and therefor never attended any leadership schools---I remember seeing a corporal marching around a bunch of SPC sevens and eights. It was a bad idea to start with.
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LTC Student
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I believe Specialist is a good thing 1SG Patrick Sims, and I think there is a benefit in today's Army to bring back SP5 and possibly SP6 to allow people that are good at their job to have room for advancement without clogging up leadership opportunities they are not suited for.
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LtCol Mac McCarty
LtCol Mac McCarty
>1 y
LTC (Join to see) - Question: Do specialists have to requalify annually with their service weapon, pass the same PFT, keep current on general military subjects, etc. or are they more like technicians in uniform? The Marine Corps is small, compared to the other services, so we may be biased in favor of every Marine being a Marine first. That can cause some confusion on our part.
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LTC Student
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LtCol Mac McCarty - They have to do everything that every other soldier does on a quarterly, semi-annual, and annual basis.
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LtCol Mac McCarty
LtCol Mac McCarty
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I figured as much. Thanks.
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CAPT Kevin B.
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The Navy does things somewhat like the AF. When the Board report comes out, you'll typically see Higher Rank (Sel) as the first introduction and then referred to current rank thereafter. I don't know much of that background other than it gives fair warning not to piss someone off who'll be your boss soon. Then there is Frocking in which the member gets pinned with the higher rank but doesn't get paid until their actual promotion date. It's done for Mils who are placed in the higher ranking billet. Interesting enough, they still wait for increased UCMJ authority as well. We see it a lot when an O-6 assumes a Flag Billet. It is done for Command billets and less frequently for others. It's typically up to whoever is the next echelon command to decide to frock or not.
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LtCol Mac McCarty
LtCol Mac McCarty
>1 y
Yes Sir. When I was on the list for LtCol, I was ahead of one of my classmates, but he was frocked because he was a Deputy Staff Judge Advocate and I was still in a Major's billet. He immediately called me, as only a friend and shipmate can, to inform me that he was now "automatically smarter than any Major!" The next month, when we were both actually promoted, I suggested in the same vein that he now check the "Blue Book," the lineal precedence list, to see how much smarter I had gotten in only a month! Damn, but I miss, in Col John Thomason's moving words, "...those men and those days."
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SN Greg Wright
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LtCol Mac McCarty Lots of answers for you already so I'll just say: welcome to RP Sir. I think you'll find lots of good people here.
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LtCol Mac McCarty
LtCol Mac McCarty
>1 y
Thanks, old man. When do you go for Petty Officer?
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LtCol Mac McCarty
LtCol Mac McCarty
>1 y
Ooooops. Vet, I see. As a crypto tech, are you even allowed to talk to us mere mortals?
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SN Greg Wright
SN Greg Wright
>1 y
LtCol Mac McCarty - Lol not back in the day. These days I'm happy if my armchair replies!
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SFC Timothy Parker
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E4 that has past the board to be promoted to E5 (SGT)
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SMSgt Robert Dahl
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Sir,
From what I remember of my Army days, the (P) designator after the rank just meant that the person is in a promotable status and awaiting the cutoff scores for the next rank to become achievable and the person still holds the current rank. The person is referred to the rank in which he/she currently holds, not the next one that the person is promotable to.
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