Posted on Oct 3, 2022
Can the Marine Corps force you to go to an event and pay for it?
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I have a Marine who is still within the Marine Corps. He is being medically separated and can barely stand for 5-10min. The Marine Corps ball is coming up. He told his NCOs that he did not want to pay for a $60 ticket, travel 49 miles, and pay $120 for one night at a hotel. He does not have a car either. They are giving him negative paperwork for not wanting to pay and attend. Is there a specific order that could prevent them from doing this? I feel this is a form of extortion (threatening to give negative paperwork for not paying).
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 24
I would recommend the Marine consult with an SJA at the base Legal Office after confirming the requirement with his Commanding Officer. Considering the years since I was on active duty, the regulations may have changed, but in my experience, if a serviceman is required to perform duties away from his assigned duty station, transportation, quarters, meals, and all expenses relative to the temporary assignment are to be covered by their unit. There is also the question concerning his medical suitability for performing the duty.
Frankly, this sounds more like threats at the section level since I cannot imagine a Commanding Officer issuing such a requirement.
Frankly, this sounds more like threats at the section level since I cannot imagine a Commanding Officer issuing such a requirement.
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MSgt Jack Sigman
Yes and no about the CO. I have had many experiences with this being an “All Hands” event, particularly in peacetime and/or non-deployable units. As SSgt Murphy says, there are ways to make it happen without the Marine having to pay for it. My units had a shuttle bus for transpo. but you had to sign up for it so the command would know if they needed a 12 pax van or a 44pax bus. That vehicle would also leave about an hour after the ceremony was complete.
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SSgt Michael Bowen
Although it's done more to officers then enlisted. Making voluntary and out of pocket paid events mandatory is nothing new. Now whether it's legal or not it's very unlikely it's on the books legal .
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Ball attendance is generally required but the ticket is normally associated with the meal and sitting at a table. Most balls have gallery seating for those not sticking around for the meal. This seems less an issue with being on a med board and more about not wanting to spend $60 for a ticket. I'm sure this Marine isn't the only one on a budget. I'm sure they could carpool with other Marines. 49 Miles isn't that much of a commute. I'm sure if he stated he only wanted to attend the Ceremony and not receive a meal (which is what the price is associated with) there would be something worked out. I attended many a ball and nobody was forced by threat of NJP to pay for a ball ticket. I'm sure speaking to EO or FRO could help add some common sense to the conversation.
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SSG Brian MacBain
I spent 20yrs in the Army and never once I had to attend the Army Ball. If this is mandatory, I be dam sure that I will not be paying a dime. If I did not have a car, the unit would have to provide transportation and the cost of the meal as well as hotel room if needed. However, being only 49 miles, do not see that happening. I would have a meeting with the EO ASAP if I was being threaten with UCMJ and bad reviews.
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CPT Richard Fematt
Give me a cash app or Venmo and I will pay for this Marines final Marine Corps Ball. Sounds like there are other issues that have mot been addressed! Semper Fidelis Marine...SSgt/5811 June 1975-Feb 1991
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If they so order him to be at the Ball as his designated Place of Duty, then yea....which would suck for this kid.
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Cpl Wilfred I Banchs
But if its his place of duty then they are supposed to feed and accomodate him as a duty... so NO a DRINKING EVENT in TODAYS MILITARY would never be mandatory...
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MSG (Join to see)
Cpl Wilfred I Banchs - I agree. Making someone pay and attend an event that isn't mandatory.....but is mandatory....is straight BS in my book.
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LCDR (Join to see)
If it's his place of duty, then they need to provide a duty driver to get him there and back, since it's away from his normal place of duty. They also cannot require him to purchase the ticket. So he can stand duty outside the event... and then file an ethics complaint.
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Seen similar situations, you can not be forced to buy anything that isn't mandatory for service. Uniform items and gear are issued, clothing allowances given, anything extra is on you. A ball ticket or a forced meal? Can not be forced, at least in the Army.
For example I knew of a MSG that got in trouble for forcing a Soldier in his section to buy a specific phone so that they could communicate in a way the MSG liked. A CPT that forced his troops to buy specific after market gear as a "mission necessity". Complete no go.
Now the Marine can be ordered to attend the ball and report in a specific uniform, but if he has a profile the order can not violate that profile.
The Marine should consult with his servicing Judge Advocate and the Doc that issued the profile before making any decisions but likely he'll have to attend
Personally, anyone who's medically ate up shouldn't be forced anywhere by brass polishers and frayed stripes just so they can feel good about themselves.
For example I knew of a MSG that got in trouble for forcing a Soldier in his section to buy a specific phone so that they could communicate in a way the MSG liked. A CPT that forced his troops to buy specific after market gear as a "mission necessity". Complete no go.
Now the Marine can be ordered to attend the ball and report in a specific uniform, but if he has a profile the order can not violate that profile.
The Marine should consult with his servicing Judge Advocate and the Doc that issued the profile before making any decisions but likely he'll have to attend
Personally, anyone who's medically ate up shouldn't be forced anywhere by brass polishers and frayed stripes just so they can feel good about themselves.
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SSgt Veronica Fraga
For a military ball, aren't formal dress uniforms ("ball gowns") expected? Those aren't issued, and having bought one (used, no less), I know they're ridiculously expensive. I was AF, so is it different for Marines?
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SPC (Join to see)
SSgt Veronica Fraga - Can only be forced to wear an issued uniform. For example the Army has a fancy mess dress uniform, it's not issued, it's something senior NCO's and Officers buy to look really nice. No one can demand you to shell out thousands to get that uniform ready for a one night event. So you wear your issued dress uniform and call it good. Maybe wear a bow tie if you're a male.
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I'm thinking there is more to this Marine's story than is being given... There could be a perception of malingering in his leadership. If he doesn't want to go, did he offer to take duty for those that want to go? Is his separation purely medical or is there some disciplinary action accompanying the discharge? The answer is no, they couldn't force him to go to the Birthday Ball, that is always an optional activity, now a Mess Night is not optional... either way, if you don't want to go, the honorable things is to offer to take duty on that night...
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I would ask for the order in writing, then go speak to base legal. I was never forced to attend and not sure why he would be force to stay over night.
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In all my years I never saw or attended a ball that was mandatory for E4 and below. Having said that my units Family clubs always raised money for this who could not afford to attend. The Color Guard was always placed on TDY as they had rehearsals and the like usually leading to a couple of days at least.
It sounds to me as if the NCOs (junior) are probably applying the same pressure to there troops as is the command on them. I would very simply as to speak to the Co and or 1SG asap. Not sure anyone can be punished.
It is clearly unauthorized to make anyone pay for an event that they cannot afford. So while I agree that it is legal to require folks to attend, I have never seen it enforced. These events are amazing and fun if sone well, so little motivation is required.
Again I would be surprised if the command the intends to hurt or punish anyone. Hell the CSM can use them for a detail and pay there way through TDY
It sounds to me as if the NCOs (junior) are probably applying the same pressure to there troops as is the command on them. I would very simply as to speak to the Co and or 1SG asap. Not sure anyone can be punished.
It is clearly unauthorized to make anyone pay for an event that they cannot afford. So while I agree that it is legal to require folks to attend, I have never seen it enforced. These events are amazing and fun if sone well, so little motivation is required.
Again I would be surprised if the command the intends to hurt or punish anyone. Hell the CSM can use them for a detail and pay there way through TDY
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Welcome to politics in the military 101. If you want to be accepted and one of the guys you will go along to get along. The military can be a pretty lonely place. Also whenever there is a sh..t job that needs doing who do you think will get the gig?
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No. I was in several decades ago and was injured in a car accident with a full leg cast. I was ordered to returned to base because they were put on alert. All functions are mandatory. He should check to see if the base has a hotel or housing for him for the night. Not sure why he is having to pay to attend the ball it should be or used to be free. I believe he is within the mile range for participation and should have been informed that he had to return if requested. In the end he should go, it's not worth it not to go it could get him in trouble and maybe court martialed. The marine corps is a strict organization. This could mess with his medical discharge. Then again maybe he can get a medical note for nonattendance. But it has to be a military doctor. Another thing i don 't understand is if he is medically separated why they are asking him to attend. He needs to check his discharge date on his dd214. It sounds like he is not completely discharge yet.
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