Posted on Mar 1, 2019
Can you be forced to attend BLC with 2 months until ETS?
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I have 65 days left until I ETS, I am being told by my 1sg that it is mandatory that I have to go to BLC from (brigade sgm). I was forced to put in a packet at 20:00 at night. Is this allowed? I want to focus on transitioning out of the army. Can they do this? I have never receiving a negative counseling before or any UCMJ clean record
Posted in these groups: 
UCMJ
Fort Cavazos
Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC)
NCO Academy
Sergeant
UCMJ Fort Cavazos Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC) NCO Academy Sergeant
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 46
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You don't get 2 months to clear.
Your rank suggests you've been successful, and there is no need to blow it now.
You may not be planning on the Guard or Reserve, but you'll have this out of the way without interfering with your post active duty plans.
I suppose it will transfer to a few of semester hours of credit if college is in your plans.
If your plans fall through, or for whatever reason you decide to enter active duty again, you'll have it knocked out already, and, the real plus, you won't need a waiver for an RE Code of 3 in case they get really offended and implement a bar. Now, I didn't research whether they could, but it is still worth mentioning. If I'm mistaken, someone will correct it.
Your rank suggests you've been successful, and there is no need to blow it now.
You may not be planning on the Guard or Reserve, but you'll have this out of the way without interfering with your post active duty plans.
I suppose it will transfer to a few of semester hours of credit if college is in your plans.
If your plans fall through, or for whatever reason you decide to enter active duty again, you'll have it knocked out already, and, the real plus, you won't need a waiver for an RE Code of 3 in case they get really offended and implement a bar. Now, I didn't research whether they could, but it is still worth mentioning. If I'm mistaken, someone will correct it.
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MAJ Timothy Faulkner
Go to BLC. When you decide to come back into the Army you will be glad you did.
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I see it as your 1SG giving you a lawful order. Now what's dumb is that you'll be taking a slot away from someone that actually wants to go.
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1SG (Join to see)
CPL (Join to see) You don’t have a “right” to extra SFL TAP classes. I understand you frustration and totally agree with you that you shouldn’t attend WLC as you are ETSing but make sure your language is accurate.
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SGT (Join to see)
I kept passing up schools with the excuse 'I'm getting out' and 'This person is better qualified therefore I should step down and let them have the slot' and every other excuse under the sun.
Reality; Generally, you should not turn down the training. You have CPL rank, even if you have no intention of staying in now things may change in a month or after you get out. If something happens and you get back in you'll have a school knocked out that you won't need to do on getting back in. If you never look back on the military, you will still have a course that at a minimum can be added as something you did while in the military as training you have that's an asset to a civilian employer. You may even learn something with presentations etc while you're taking the course that will translate over to civilian side. As has been stated by others, some colleges will take it and convert it to college credits as well.
Yes, it's taking the slot from someone else who potentially wants to go, however, if you're close to ETS and they're still giving you the slot they may have the slot to burn and need to fill or lose the slots. Keep in mind not everyone that wants to go has the time in service or meets other requirements to be able to go.
At this point I push the soldiers in my unit to take the training they're offered and to take opportunities for promotions even if they plan on getting out. I want them to learn from my mistakes and take the rank they can when they can with the understanding that while they're potentially getting out, they may also find themselves staying in (or getting back in) and having the rank and knowledge sets them in a better position to pass on what they learned to their subordinates when they get the rank to lead a team. If they get out and never look back, taking training and leadership positions still (in my opinion) will help you later on in life for having the experience.
Reality; Generally, you should not turn down the training. You have CPL rank, even if you have no intention of staying in now things may change in a month or after you get out. If something happens and you get back in you'll have a school knocked out that you won't need to do on getting back in. If you never look back on the military, you will still have a course that at a minimum can be added as something you did while in the military as training you have that's an asset to a civilian employer. You may even learn something with presentations etc while you're taking the course that will translate over to civilian side. As has been stated by others, some colleges will take it and convert it to college credits as well.
Yes, it's taking the slot from someone else who potentially wants to go, however, if you're close to ETS and they're still giving you the slot they may have the slot to burn and need to fill or lose the slots. Keep in mind not everyone that wants to go has the time in service or meets other requirements to be able to go.
At this point I push the soldiers in my unit to take the training they're offered and to take opportunities for promotions even if they plan on getting out. I want them to learn from my mistakes and take the rank they can when they can with the understanding that while they're potentially getting out, they may also find themselves staying in (or getting back in) and having the rank and knowledge sets them in a better position to pass on what they learned to their subordinates when they get the rank to lead a team. If they get out and never look back, taking training and leadership positions still (in my opinion) will help you later on in life for having the experience.
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Sgt Charles Malcom
Yes. That sounds like somebody asking "I got in late last night, do I have to fall out for PT today? Oh, can I skip that 12 mile hike today? Hey, First Sergeant, I got a date tonight so I can't stand guard duty. Sounds to me like the military has become a "Mutual Admiration Society."
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If I had a button for every person who was getting out with no intention of future military service, but ended up joining the reserves or active duty, I would be a fancy tailor now.
I seriously doubt you have something else more important going on that time, but if it's really important to you, you can just cite AR 614-200 and the HRC web page. The SRR for any NCOES is 6 months from graduation.
I seriously doubt you have something else more important going on that time, but if it's really important to you, you can just cite AR 614-200 and the HRC web page. The SRR for any NCOES is 6 months from graduation.
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Dear Jonny... Please read said link, but beware of how you present to your chain of command! HRC states you need 6 months for any NCOES school accept for the SMA at Bliss, which is 2-yrs. A direct order is a direct order. Might confir with JAG to see what your legal options are as you are in a catch 22, damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Do t bitch about it, respectfully show them the regulation! Bitching about it could get you an article 15. However, by providing the information in a professional manner, you are preventing fraud, waste and abuse as there are other E4s in the BDE on their OOM list!
https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Time%20Remaining%20in%20Service%20Obligation%20for%20Military%20Schooling
https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Time%20Remaining%20in%20Service%20Obligation%20for%20Military%20Schooling
Toll-Free: 1-888-ARMY-HRC (1-888-276-9472) DSN: 983-9500 AskHRC
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SSG Curtis Vaughn
Everything you have stated here is information the chain of command and whom ever handles the bed schools should know already, sounds as they need a body to fill the slot. THEY SHOULD KNOW THE REGULATION!
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SGT Jim Ramge, MBA
SSG Curtis Vaughn And soldiers at 15, 20, or even longer years of years of service should know how to put on a uniform per AR 670-1, but we find/found ourselves correcting - right? Don’t say you’ve never seen one...
Guidance changes so often that every rule doesn’t always apply or may have changed since the last update. Case in point, how often have the tattoo/weight control rules modified in the last 20 years? Army guidance and policy dictates change per needs of the Army - period!
It is the S1’s responsibility as well as the Schools NCOs when TRADOC passes MSGs to the MACOMs to keep their commands straight with the charge of their troops! So should they know, yes, do they, not always... And as I stated before, how many E4s are in a BDE? Unless rules have changed, you can send an E3, but things may have changed since I was retired in ‘00... Been a few years since I went thru PLDC.
Guidance changes so often that every rule doesn’t always apply or may have changed since the last update. Case in point, how often have the tattoo/weight control rules modified in the last 20 years? Army guidance and policy dictates change per needs of the Army - period!
It is the S1’s responsibility as well as the Schools NCOs when TRADOC passes MSGs to the MACOMs to keep their commands straight with the charge of their troops! So should they know, yes, do they, not always... And as I stated before, how many E4s are in a BDE? Unless rules have changed, you can send an E3, but things may have changed since I was retired in ‘00... Been a few years since I went thru PLDC.
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SSG Curtis Vaughn
SGT Jim Ramge, MBA SGT Ramge, as I stated before a slot was open other mission's come up such as getting ready for deployments and they know he's not deploying due to ETS and is available. Transitioning out has become very educational than it was when you left, unless you already have a job set up. The info that's available is helpful, VA benefits, educational services, Resume services, which needs to be done as far out as possible. The units once they know a Soilder is ETS'ing don't care about you, just waiting to get you off there books.
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The more you have under your belt and on your resume when you get out will reflect heavy on potential hires. You want to be as competitive as you can, contrary to belief it is not easy to land good positions. It also keeps you competitive should you decide on Guard or Reserves. Thank you fo your service.
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
Great point, just because you are a Vet, the world will not bow to us. We have to work hard and be competitive.
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Do it, put it on your resume as leadership training, it’s the main reason they changed it to “basic leader course” instead of “warrior leader course” heck, they could be trying to hook you up
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CPL (Join to see) Bottom line up front
YES, they can. It's simply going to be your place of duty. Be there or be prepared to accept the consequences.
The rest of my answer
There is an old saying, "Just because you can do something does not mean you should"
Which may or many not apply, depending on their personal reasoning for insisting you attend the basic leadership course available to you for free .
Perhaps they are convinced you are a great Soldier and they wish to retain you, they don't think they can, but want to make sure you have every opportunity open to you should you change your mind. Should you go into the guards or reserves, or, just because it is a leadership school and you may learn something or something about yourself that you can use after you get out.
In other words, you may not agree, and SM often do not when we do things FOR them they feel are TOO them.. But they may be insisting because they think its best for YOU.
Or, its a poorly worded directive from "higher"
"Everyone eligible will attend , zero excuses"
And those in subordinate units are taking it literally, and or there is no working relationship currently for subordinates to ask the author of the directive for clarification or exception.
Don't read that as its the Sergeants Major fault, It may be, it may also be his(hers) hands are tied and an officer has made it so...and there is no working relationship currently for subordinates to ask the author of the directive for clarification or exception.
Or it could be the subordinate leaders fault..they do not possess the willingness or experience to see and understands yes orders and directives are meant to be executed, and most times without question, but never without clarification when needed.
2nd bottom line... Its only a few days and you might make a new friend/contact, might learn something. As a E4 your not going to get but a few days to clear anyway...so this will not interfere with that. And mandatory transition classes only take a few days as well.
If it were me? Id use it........ Id go speak to the 1SG..and ask his HELP. Something like "1SG, you really don't think I need to go to BLC do you? But you have no choice right?" OK thanks, I get it, than can I ask you for something? I'll go, I'll kick ass and give the unit a shot at having the Honor Grad..no promises but I'll put in the effort. After Im back.... can you help me with time to transition? (AND NOW COMES THE PART WHERE YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE YOUR HOMEWORK) 1SG when I get back on the XX MAR there is a class I need to take on XYZ , and on the XX MAR another YXZ course, and then in APR there are these 9 courses here (HAND HIM THE PLAN AND TIMELINE YOU MADE THAT SHOWS YOUR GOALS AND HOW YOUR GOING TO GET THERE) that would really help me get set for success after I get out... then I start clearing on or about the XX APR.... can you help me stay off the detail radar for those dates please? Help in getting me the time to do this right?"
YES, they can. It's simply going to be your place of duty. Be there or be prepared to accept the consequences.
The rest of my answer
There is an old saying, "Just because you can do something does not mean you should"
Which may or many not apply, depending on their personal reasoning for insisting you attend the basic leadership course available to you for free .
Perhaps they are convinced you are a great Soldier and they wish to retain you, they don't think they can, but want to make sure you have every opportunity open to you should you change your mind. Should you go into the guards or reserves, or, just because it is a leadership school and you may learn something or something about yourself that you can use after you get out.
In other words, you may not agree, and SM often do not when we do things FOR them they feel are TOO them.. But they may be insisting because they think its best for YOU.
Or, its a poorly worded directive from "higher"
"Everyone eligible will attend , zero excuses"
And those in subordinate units are taking it literally, and or there is no working relationship currently for subordinates to ask the author of the directive for clarification or exception.
Don't read that as its the Sergeants Major fault, It may be, it may also be his(hers) hands are tied and an officer has made it so...and there is no working relationship currently for subordinates to ask the author of the directive for clarification or exception.
Or it could be the subordinate leaders fault..they do not possess the willingness or experience to see and understands yes orders and directives are meant to be executed, and most times without question, but never without clarification when needed.
2nd bottom line... Its only a few days and you might make a new friend/contact, might learn something. As a E4 your not going to get but a few days to clear anyway...so this will not interfere with that. And mandatory transition classes only take a few days as well.
If it were me? Id use it........ Id go speak to the 1SG..and ask his HELP. Something like "1SG, you really don't think I need to go to BLC do you? But you have no choice right?" OK thanks, I get it, than can I ask you for something? I'll go, I'll kick ass and give the unit a shot at having the Honor Grad..no promises but I'll put in the effort. After Im back.... can you help me with time to transition? (AND NOW COMES THE PART WHERE YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE YOUR HOMEWORK) 1SG when I get back on the XX MAR there is a class I need to take on XYZ , and on the XX MAR another YXZ course, and then in APR there are these 9 courses here (HAND HIM THE PLAN AND TIMELINE YOU MADE THAT SHOWS YOUR GOALS AND HOW YOUR GOING TO GET THERE) that would really help me get set for success after I get out... then I start clearing on or about the XX APR.... can you help me stay off the detail radar for those dates please? Help in getting me the time to do this right?"
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Unless the reg changed, yes they can. You only needed 30 days left when I went through in 2006.
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The Army is literally the easiest job you will ever do! I left active duty after 8 years, no intentions of going into the guard but as time went on I began to miss the comrodery and friendships I built while in. Take advantage of the class and seriously reconsider your exit. I get it your tired of the B.S. I was to and it is the same on the outside.
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