Posted on Dec 5, 2015
Command climate...what's the point if nothing changes?
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I've been at this unit for almost a year now. Have done 5 online surveys and 2 "in person" ones with higher headquarters personnel. Morale is down, cohesion is gone, and communication and care for soldiers well being is at its worst. What's the point in doing these surveys and "sensing sessions" if not a single thing that's brought up or complained about has been improved
Posted in these groups: 
Command Climate
Command Climate
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 23
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Have you asked anyone above you (if possible) and let them know your concerns outside of a survey? What exactly are the problems? Are you sure a lower level cannot fix them? Just worth asking.
These surveys can work and get people fired. I know one time, supposedly a lot of people gave a lot of scathing input on leadership on one of these surveys, and issues involving said person at the same time and they were promptly relieved of command.
These surveys can work and get people fired. I know one time, supposedly a lot of people gave a lot of scathing input on leadership on one of these surveys, and issues involving said person at the same time and they were promptly relieved of command.
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SGT(P) Daniel McBride
Yes we finally had to have a huge session with the brigade eoa. Hopefully that works. And a congressman was at our motorpool not long ago
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SrA David Steyer
Good to know. Like I said I have seen a commander fired over this, however I believe there were other complaints pending at the same time...
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I have special interest at this location. It was here I transitioned for Active Duty to Army Wife, even a (oh well, too long a story) My actual duty station was DLI, Foxtrot Co.
My husband was discharged reduced to rank of E-1.
My husband was discharged reduced to rank of E-1.
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I would say that you as an NCO should be the buffer of that command and them Soldiers. Keep your soldiers motivated and make them want to do the job for you. Provide that motivation and make it fun.
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Good Morning SGT McBride,
This article might help.
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/MilitaryReview/Archives/English/MilitaryReview_20130228_art012.pdf
With respect,
MAJ Miaullis
This article might help.
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/MilitaryReview/Archives/English/MilitaryReview_20130228_art012.pdf
With respect,
MAJ Miaullis
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Good Morning SGT McBride,
In my 20 years of Army experience (I retire next year), PCSing to 10 duty stations, with 7 years enlisted time and 13 years commissioned time, I have never seen a command climate survey have a positive impact on the morale of a unit. Your experience is not unique.
If the leadership over the command having the command climate survey cares about the troops, then something happens. Here is an example:
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/08/31/colonel-removed-over-accusations-kissing-spouses-poor-leadership.html
If the leadership over your leadership is toxic, then the command climate survey doesn’t matter IMO (see below)
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/01/08/military-memories-i-realize-now-that-when-i-was-a-captain-i-was-a-toxic-leader/
However, some command climate surveys do uncover problems with those in the ranks, and action is taken. Examples of success (sort of) from the Navy follow:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/12/09/navy-sophisticated-sub-ring-repeatedly-filmed-women/77068836/
http://www.13newsnow.com/story/news/military/2015/11/16/report-long-hours-nosy-co-pet-goat-aboard-cruiser-lake-erie/75881784/
Remember NOBODY thinks they are toxic or the problem. That’s just human nature.
I’ll post an amusing story next from way, way back when I was first commissioned. It shows you what a toxic leader is like, and that command climate surveys only work if the command wants to change (or they are caught on the media doing something illegal or immoral).
With respect,
MAJ Aaron Miaullis
In my 20 years of Army experience (I retire next year), PCSing to 10 duty stations, with 7 years enlisted time and 13 years commissioned time, I have never seen a command climate survey have a positive impact on the morale of a unit. Your experience is not unique.
If the leadership over the command having the command climate survey cares about the troops, then something happens. Here is an example:
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/08/31/colonel-removed-over-accusations-kissing-spouses-poor-leadership.html
If the leadership over your leadership is toxic, then the command climate survey doesn’t matter IMO (see below)
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/01/08/military-memories-i-realize-now-that-when-i-was-a-captain-i-was-a-toxic-leader/
However, some command climate surveys do uncover problems with those in the ranks, and action is taken. Examples of success (sort of) from the Navy follow:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/12/09/navy-sophisticated-sub-ring-repeatedly-filmed-women/77068836/
http://www.13newsnow.com/story/news/military/2015/11/16/report-long-hours-nosy-co-pet-goat-aboard-cruiser-lake-erie/75881784/
Remember NOBODY thinks they are toxic or the problem. That’s just human nature.
I’ll post an amusing story next from way, way back when I was first commissioned. It shows you what a toxic leader is like, and that command climate surveys only work if the command wants to change (or they are caught on the media doing something illegal or immoral).
With respect,
MAJ Aaron Miaullis
Colonel Removed Over Accusations of Kissing Spouses, Poor Leadership
As Congress wrangled with the growing clamor over sexual misconduct, a CO regularly gave subordinates' wives unwelcome kisses.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Mentoring Sadism
Moral: Not all lessons are ones you want to learn.
For legal reasons, I’ll leave the names and places out of this story.
One time when I was in the Army, there was a senior officer who brought me into his office and told me that he would be my mentor. This is back when the Army was on a “mentoring kick” and every senior officer needed to be able to put “mentor” in their Officer Evaluation Report. Those junior people viewed it as an awful waste of time to downright abuse. I’m in the later half.
Often three times a week, the senior officer would schedule a four hour block of instruction on highlights of his career. The “mentoring sessions” would start at 1630 hours (4:30 PM for those civilians reading this) and end at 2030 hours. He would talk nonstop, without letting me get a word in edgewise for four hours at a pop. It was amazing to watch the first time for just the endurance of a senior officer’s voice and tolerance to hear themselves talk.
Moral: Not all lessons are ones you want to learn.
For legal reasons, I’ll leave the names and places out of this story.
One time when I was in the Army, there was a senior officer who brought me into his office and told me that he would be my mentor. This is back when the Army was on a “mentoring kick” and every senior officer needed to be able to put “mentor” in their Officer Evaluation Report. Those junior people viewed it as an awful waste of time to downright abuse. I’m in the later half.
Often three times a week, the senior officer would schedule a four hour block of instruction on highlights of his career. The “mentoring sessions” would start at 1630 hours (4:30 PM for those civilians reading this) and end at 2030 hours. He would talk nonstop, without letting me get a word in edgewise for four hours at a pop. It was amazing to watch the first time for just the endurance of a senior officer’s voice and tolerance to hear themselves talk.
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MAJ (Join to see)
One time we had something super critical going on, and the “mentor” scheduled “mentoring sessions” for Thursday, Friday and Monday. The critical event was happening on Tuesday. I was getting into work at 0530 hrs every day and working like a dog to make this event happen.
On that Thursday I walked into the “mentor’s” office, and noted the plaques on the walls, with quite a few backed in the camouflage pattern of our Battle Dress Uniform. When I asked about the backings, he told me that the backings were the shirts of people he’d chaptered (kicked out) of the Army.
There were at least six plaques with BDU pattern. That made me very nervous. Within the first three months at that duty station, the “mentor” also fired a Chief of Logistics, hired a Chief of Logistics, fired a Chief of Logistics, put a sergeant through the court marshal process and a Private First Class (PFC) in Leavenworth Military Prison for two years. I’d seen him in action and believed him when he mentioned the BDU pattern. He was so proud of the failures in leadership that lead to him chaptering people out that he effectively nailed their “skins” to the wall like trophies.
On that Thursday I walked into the “mentor’s” office, and noted the plaques on the walls, with quite a few backed in the camouflage pattern of our Battle Dress Uniform. When I asked about the backings, he told me that the backings were the shirts of people he’d chaptered (kicked out) of the Army.
There were at least six plaques with BDU pattern. That made me very nervous. Within the first three months at that duty station, the “mentor” also fired a Chief of Logistics, hired a Chief of Logistics, fired a Chief of Logistics, put a sergeant through the court marshal process and a Private First Class (PFC) in Leavenworth Military Prison for two years. I’d seen him in action and believed him when he mentioned the BDU pattern. He was so proud of the failures in leadership that lead to him chaptering people out that he effectively nailed their “skins” to the wall like trophies.
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MAJ (Join to see)
When I was in his office, I chose my words carefully. Because unlike others who might have facial expressions that give away emotion, this “mentor” had none of that and I watched him smile and laugh with the Chief of Logistics right before he fired her.
But I was worn out, and just listened vaguely to what the “mentor” had to say.
On Friday at 1630 hours the “mentor” asked me, “So what did you get out of the last mentoring session?”
Being even more tired, my defense was worn down. I just wanted to go home, hug my wife and kids, get a shower and pass out.
But I was worn out, and just listened vaguely to what the “mentor” had to say.
On Friday at 1630 hours the “mentor” asked me, “So what did you get out of the last mentoring session?”
Being even more tired, my defense was worn down. I just wanted to go home, hug my wife and kids, get a shower and pass out.
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MAJ (Join to see)
“Sir, do you respect candor?” I asked.
“Yes,” he said, with a wave of his hand, “you must always be honest with me.”
‘Sir, I lost four hours that I desperately need,” I said.
“Hummmmm,” he grunted. “Today’s mentoring session will be on respect.”
The mentoring session lasted a full four hours, down to the minute. I didn’t say a word.
“The next mentoring session will be on Monday at 1630 hours,” he said with a grin as I left.
On Monday I walked into his lair.
“So,” he purred, “what did you get out of the last mentoring session?”
“I learned a lot, sir!” I declared.
“Good.”
That mentoring session only lasted two hours. I really had learned my lesson. The lesson was not to have candor with some people. You can’t lie, but you can’t say what’s on your mind either.
“Yes,” he said, with a wave of his hand, “you must always be honest with me.”
‘Sir, I lost four hours that I desperately need,” I said.
“Hummmmm,” he grunted. “Today’s mentoring session will be on respect.”
The mentoring session lasted a full four hours, down to the minute. I didn’t say a word.
“The next mentoring session will be on Monday at 1630 hours,” he said with a grin as I left.
On Monday I walked into his lair.
“So,” he purred, “what did you get out of the last mentoring session?”
“I learned a lot, sir!” I declared.
“Good.”
That mentoring session only lasted two hours. I really had learned my lesson. The lesson was not to have candor with some people. You can’t lie, but you can’t say what’s on your mind either.
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Go to the higher command your unit EO NCO. Then if that does not work after a while go to your higher unit CSM under their open door policy.
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SGT
Surveys are a tool and sometime a "tool" doesn't respond. My advice is to focus on what you can impact. All leaders should do what they can to keep crap from rolling down the hill. Also, unit cultures change over time. Officers will change out. Good luck.
Surveys are a tool and sometime a "tool" doesn't respond. My advice is to focus on what you can impact. All leaders should do what they can to keep crap from rolling down the hill. Also, unit cultures change over time. Officers will change out. Good luck.
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I was in 664 in the 553 ar the time and seen a LOT of change after several put in they wanted to kill them self and other extreme measures because of the units leadership at the time.
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SGT(P) Daniel McBride
I pray it never gets that bad but sadly enough, i do see it traveling in that direction
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That is why it is your job to take care of your soldier's and don't worry about the other higher ranking in the Unit. It is your job to maintain that unit cohesion no matter what, you are a Nco, a leader of soldier's. You have only been there a year but you as a Nco should make a difference it takes the power of one to achieve what many cannot. STAY STRONG AND BELIVE IN YOUR UPPER LEADERSHIP OR WORK ON BECOMING UPPER LEADERSHIP
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SGT(P) Daniel McBride
The seniors have had a tendency to remove the ability to improve morale and cohesion from junior NCOs. I'm strong and have tried to maintain but when the top blanket the organization in disrespect and deceit, there's only so much we can do
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