Posted on Feb 16, 2014
Could there be a second revolution/civil war in America?
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0in">What do you think the chances are of
there being a second revolution/civil war in America? Could things
like The Occupy Movement, The Tea Party Movement, etc. lead to a
second revolution/civil war in the United States? </p>
there being a second revolution/civil war in America? Could things
like The Occupy Movement, The Tea Party Movement, etc. lead to a
second revolution/civil war in the United States? </p>
Posted in these groups: 
Politics
Politics
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 26
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Here's an opposing view point after 4 years in Bosnia: it's possible.<div><br></div><div>The Bosnian war happened because the Yugoslavian Army became predominantly a single ethnicity. When that ethnicity came to power, it was the perfect storm: corrupt government + willing military = genocide.</div><div><br></div><div>I would argue that if the military was unified on a single issue and the government opposed that issue, the military would refuse to back the government. Government program/policy - willing military = civil war.</div><div><br></div><div>We have seen this play out in the Middle East where the commanding general of the military ends up opposed to the sitting ruler. The General then attempts to wrest power from the government or the military declares military rule.</div><div><br></div><div>It is a mistake to believe that the population needs to be mobilized in any kind of a large scale. In most Civil Wars, including our own right through what is happening right now in Syria, much of the population is passive and just gets herded around or used for human shields.</div><div><br></div><div>Yugoslavia was a well-off, modern nation before the war. In 1984, they hosted the Winter Olympics in Sarajevo, 8 years later, Sarajevo was under siege. </div><div><br></div><div>I hear a lot of rhetoric in our country full of utterly false analogies and hyperbolic claims that seem intended less to promote educated debate than to lather anger and distrust. We are the most connected generation ever, but it seems instead of people using that to gather information, people use it to spread propaganda. The kinds of propaganda that claim that those who disagree are "un-American" or worse, less than human.</div><div><br></div><div>Considering all of this, I would not assess that Civil War is impossible here.</div>
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Suspended Profile
CPT Wolfer. ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING!!! Warmest Regards, Sandy
LTC Paul Labrador
CPT Wolfer, good analysis. Another factor you mentioned is who "owns" the Army? In the end if there is ever another revolution/Civil War, whichever side the Army backs (or appears to back) will have a clear advantage. The fall of the Roman Republic was predicated in part to the shifting of the Legion's loyalties from the Republic to the generals (and would be emperor's) who paid their daily wages. In essence became private armies. That is why it is crucial that our military remain apolitical.
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CPT (Join to see)
This is thought-provoking. Pushing the conversation one step further, LTC Labrador and CPT Wolfer, what would your opinions be if the Army itself became divided? The question of "who owns the army" assumes that the army is singular and not divided In itself with many multiple subcultures. It would be hard to believe that so many of us would forget our oaths and rally behind one cause (people would never agree to just one cause, even at the strategic command levels). If we could move those kinds of mountains (1+ million in how army forces alone), we could achieve much more than we currently do. I do believe that with the current military structure, it would be almost impossible to push this type of civil war into fruition. I foresee cultural conflict, but of a much less violent type. Civil outrage and such, but like 1lt stated, I think our civilization has moved beyond the atrocities of civil war (as a whole... So id like to hope)
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I personally believe that it is a distinct possibility that there could be a second civil war in this country. As others in this thread have already pointed out, one of the primary catalysts to the Revolutionary war, and a contributing factor in the Civil War, was taxes. With the ever increasing tax burden being placed on the populace, and the loopholes that the wealthy and corporations are able to exploit to avoid paying taxes, you have to wonder at what point will the citizens decide that enough is enough.
You also have to take into account the political environment right now. Our elected representatives are becoming more and more out of touch with their constituents, and the lives that they live. Case in point, a recent interview with Hillary Clinton, in which she revealed that she has not even driven a car since 1996. Politicians are now more concerned with making risk averse decisions that will ensure their reelection, rather than make the tougher choices that better serve the country as a whole. Our current Commander in Chief flaunts the fact that he has, and will continue to circumvent the legislative process by signing Executive Orders, changing laws without congressional approval. Of course we have to add in the numerous wealthy individuals who believe they can basically purchase legislature, and influence the government by promising or denying "donations".
Lastly, the near constant assaults on the Constitutional rights of the citizens as well. No longer do we as citizens have a reasonable expectation of privacy, as nearly all of our electronic communications are intercepted, including our web usage statistics, and at times even our telephone conversations as evidenced by the recent NSA scandal. Freedom from illegal search and seizure is blown out of the water by police departments on a near daily basis, and usually ends up with a very bad outcome for someone. And of course everyone's favorite hot topic, the right to keep and bear arms. California has already begun confiscation efforts, and passed laws that basically make it near impossible for a law abiding citizen to own a firearm, and that is just one example.
Thomas Jefferson said "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants". This particular saying is becoming a battle cry of sorts to those who desire change, as much as the Gadston Flag is becoming their banner. With everything that we are forced to endure as citizens, we have to wonder how much more will go unopposed before someone makes that first move toward a new civil war. All it will take is one voice, screaming loud enough, to start the ball in motion.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
SFC Busko:
Well said and explained. There is definitely a palpable tension in the air these days.
Well said and explained. There is definitely a palpable tension in the air these days.
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TSgt Christopher D.
SFC Gates,
A google search reveals that 25% of US Marines would fire on Americans if ordered to. Cops readily prove their willingness to assault and shoot Americans, and the police forces are becoming more militarized by the day.
My chief concern, as expressed elsewhere on this post is, how many servicemen and women will fire on American citizens if ordered to do so?
I had an impromptu conversation with a LtCol JAG about the Constitutionality of certain orders and this happened to come up. She told me that wondering about the Constitutionality of an order was not within my purview, and that failing to follow an order was punishable by courts martial, confinement and a BCD or DH discharge.
She might as well have said, "Well Chris, even though you're smart enough to learn to read, write and speak Mandarin, you have no business examining that 4 page document and determining what is and is not Constitutional."
My LSAT score was higher than hers, I later found out...
Anyway, our senior officers will set the tone (think base commanders... O-6s and O-7s), and I haven't personally met enough of them who I believe would tell the commanding Generals that acquiesced to such ridiculous orders to kiss their ass. I hope I'm wrong, but it's ground into us from the day we enter basic that you better do what you're damned well told to do. And they have a LOT riding on their investment in the profession of arms.
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CPT (Join to see)
Well if it's on google, it must be true. Secondly, the constitutionality (legality) of an order IS within all service members purview. Thirdly, it's easy to say that police are militant and overly aggressive when you're not, or haven't even been in their shoes. I liken your views to the same perspectives civilians take with our military actions in combat. They can quickly judge our conduct, accusing us of excessive force or an roe that is too relaxed, but until they are fighting for their lives in an unforgiving environment, they have little room to judge.
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No, people care more for the luxuries of TV, Microwaves and what not. Look at last years ratings of the State of the Union vs any week that American Idol is on. It's the same reason war probably wouldn't break out between China and the US. Both sides would lose, it's the same idea with any factions there might be here in the States.
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