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Imagine that you are a Minuteman or Trident missileer (AF and Navy, respectively). You are fully aware that a few oz's of pressure with your finger WILL kill millions of people. Could you do it?
I know that most of us here are alphas, and our knee-jerk reaction is to say 'of course I could.' That's fine. That might also be accurate. But I'm asking you step back, put yourself in that position, and determine whether or not you ACTUALLY would do so if ordered.
I know that most of us here are alphas, and our knee-jerk reaction is to say 'of course I could.' That's fine. That might also be accurate. But I'm asking you step back, put yourself in that position, and determine whether or not you ACTUALLY would do so if ordered.
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 71
I can't speak for the Navy submariners simply because I don't know the procedures for Trident operations. As for the Air Force, that’s one of the questions asked during crew selection and as part of the continuous PRP process for all nuclear certified personnel. As an operator or maintainer on those critters you’re always scrutinized as to your dedication, mental acuity and understanding of what it means to “push the button.” In other words, do you really understand the gravity of your profession and what you may be ordered to do? If there is any doubt to a launch officer’s ability to turn keys then they’re removed from duty. One must also understand the launch crews do not live in a vacuum. There are continuous intel briefings and know much more about the state of the world than the average person on the street. Also, as with any profession, operations and maintenance in the ICBM fleet are continually undergoing some kind of evaluation. It’s suppose its very similar to developing “muscle memory.” You practice, simulate or perform a task so often that it becomes second nature. So if/when the balloon goes up I have no doubt the crews will turn keys. I know I would.
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Sadly, I know I could.
Sometime during the height of the cold war, somewhere in the north Atlantic, in a 640 class boat.
We were suppose to have a WSRT (weapons system readiness test), the OOD screwed the pooch and said "man battle stations missile for strategic launch", everyone was shitting themselves but every last man did their job and was ready to pull the trigger before the word was passed that this was "just" a WSRT. This remains some 35+ years later the closest thing to PTSD I have. I can't talk or write about it without a fit of emotion.
Sometime during the height of the cold war, somewhere in the north Atlantic, in a 640 class boat.
We were suppose to have a WSRT (weapons system readiness test), the OOD screwed the pooch and said "man battle stations missile for strategic launch", everyone was shitting themselves but every last man did their job and was ready to pull the trigger before the word was passed that this was "just" a WSRT. This remains some 35+ years later the closest thing to PTSD I have. I can't talk or write about it without a fit of emotion.
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CPO David Rediger
Those where the days. I served on a 637 class SSN. Always wondered if I was going to come back to a homeport or a burn cinder.
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CPO David Rediger
You are the only person to be able to truly answer that question honestly because of your experience.
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PO2 Michael Dowell
Absolutely, I was on the SSBN 633 back in 1980's, same thing happened, junior officer got excited and called a strategic launch, 1 minute later everyone was on post in their skiveys ready to go. Captain had his butt but we knew then on it would happen.
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Yes. It is not my call to make whether or not I push the button. It's my job to actually push the button. The people making that call are sitting in intel briefs weighing the odds. Maybe we are making a first strike against one of their remote missile silos. Maybe we are stopping a global catastrophe. Or maybe we're just sick of it all and going for global conquest. I don't know and it's not my job to know. My job is to push the button when I'm told to.
What I do know though is that if it were actually my job to push that button, I would make damn sure my family was protected in the event of retaliation.
What I do know though is that if it were actually my job to push that button, I would make damn sure my family was protected in the event of retaliation.
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If the order came down, then it meant that there were inbound missiles coming our way and within the next 30 minutes all that we know is going to vaporize in a flash of light. So, yeah I would return the favor without hesitation and then kiss my own ass goodbye.
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Spent 15+ years as a SAC aircrew member, so answer is an absolute yes. One needs to understand all the checks and balances in the system, so if you receive a validated execution message it's your job to carry out the orders.
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How the hell would you stop me? It is button, it must be pushed, that is its destiny. I am a great many things for my country, but a guardian of unpushed buttons I am not. Ask Geraldo Rivera's camera crew.
Seriously though, let's be honest. Just because you are in the military doesn't make you an alpha type. That is a title I would confer only upon a few people. The guys who are charged with the final controls of a nuclear missile are not alpha types. They are non-aggressive individuals who follow orders. That is what makes them special. They do not take charge, they do not take initiative. They follow the orders they are given.
Seriously though, let's be honest. Just because you are in the military doesn't make you an alpha type. That is a title I would confer only upon a few people. The guys who are charged with the final controls of a nuclear missile are not alpha types. They are non-aggressive individuals who follow orders. That is what makes them special. They do not take charge, they do not take initiative. They follow the orders they are given.
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SN Greg Wright
You make a good point. I merely wanted to avoid the knee-jerk 'of course I would' reactions. Most would, as we're seeing, but I wanted the requisite introspection first.
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MSgt Richard Randall
You're 100% correct. Highly unlikely you'll find "Maverick" or "Goose" 100 ft below grade locked in a steel and concrete capsule anxiously waiting to nuke someone... well, maybe wise-ass maintenance crews. They hate maintenance crews and the feeling was mutual. :-)
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If it came to saving American lives, then not only would I do it just because it was an order, I would WANT to do it.
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I was an FTG1(SS) on the first generation of missile boats(George Washington Class) I stood watch in the Torpedo Room and Missile Control Center. Home ported in Pearl. We had discussions about this. We knew that if the SHTF, Pearl, where our families were, would be one of the first targets and that they would be gone. The unanimous decision was to support the captain if the launch order came down.
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There can certainly be questions about whether nuclear deterrence actually deters all our adversaries. Former president Aminablowjob of Iran is definitely one of those who might seek nuclear holocaust as a means of ushering in an Islamofascist Armageddon.
But what we hope is that our people's willingness to push the button, if so ordered, is what keeps the guy on the other side from pushing the button. I know there are doubts about nuclear deterrence, but it has worked for 70+ years now, which is certainly a better track record than the UN has, for example, in preventing war.
But what we hope is that our people's willingness to push the button, if so ordered, is what keeps the guy on the other side from pushing the button. I know there are doubts about nuclear deterrence, but it has worked for 70+ years now, which is certainly a better track record than the UN has, for example, in preventing war.
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That's a critical component of "deterrence". Its not just enough to have the missiles just sitting there in a silo waiting to be launched. You have to have the right people pulling alert, ready to run the procedures, do the authentication, and turn the keys. I am glad that we have the folks that will unequivocally say "YES, I will do it."
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If that is part of my job then yes. These missiles are aimed at countries that wish us harm and I would not have a problem pushing the button if given a lawful order. Does anyone think that any of those countries had nuclear weapons and were not afraid of retaliation wouldn't launch at us? MAD is what keeps the world safe, for now. Why do we work so hard to keeps nucs our of the middle east?
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As a member of an ATLAS ICBM launch crew in the 1960's (Cuban Missile Crisis), I was always aware there was a possibility of launching the weapon and conscious of wreaking death and destruction on such a wide scale. It was not a pleasant thought, but when in defense of my country and upon receiving the order to fire, I was prepared to push that button, without a second thought.
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I know nothing about how that whole thing works. But my odds on guess is that the operator and officer who turns that key or hits that button doesn't know if its a drill or the real thing until after the orders are carried out. I think they face that real possibility every time they have a drill. And pray its only a drill....
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SP5 Robert Ruck
Absolutely true. I was on a firing crew and we did not know if it was real or a drill until the missile was counted down. ( Pershing Missile System 70-73 ).
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PO2 Michael Dowell
One time I thought I was going to tactical launch nukes on the sub and afterward everyone needed to calm the hell down, if every practice launch could be the real thing and no one knows till after it's done if it was real, that's stress at a whole new level. Thank you for your service...
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I had that job on a Trident sub, yes I would push it, you don't even think about it at the time. You practice it so many times and when it comes time you don't question it you just do it. When your just cruising around punching holes in the ocean you have plenty of time to think 'what if' but when the time comes it's pure reaction, you have to get the birds off the boat because when your in position to launch your a big target, there's likely a Fast Attack watching your every move waiting to blow you up if you look like your going to launch. Mom, Dad and little Susie are most likely dust in the wind now or in a short while because the other side won't hesitate, they train just as hard and know the reality of what is happening. Yes, it's not Alpha male to push the button, it's just what you do. Glade I never did...
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I had enlisted as an ET and a sub volunteer, my training was to be for the Polaris and Trident missile systems. I have to believe that when the order came down from the President, I would have pushed the launch button after verification of the targets.
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PV2 Glen Lewis
That conviction is why you were given that assignment and why I wouldn't be. I know that I couldn't launch a weapon that would almost certainly be the end for seven and a half billion people. I don't see the necssity of them anyway. I'd estimate their are enough conventional weapons to pretty much eradicate Earth's population anyway.
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In my career field of communications, command and control it was my job to ensure that the messages to launch were transmitted and systems were up to make that happen. Everytime I would relay EAMs it was unknown whether a drill or the real deal. I knew that if it was an actual launch order that I was effectively killing everyone I knew or loved, to include my family. I never hesitated and wouldn't allow hesitation, period. This was during the Cold War years when MAD was the name of the game. Being a target was just the way it was and they were targets, too. It was something that you didn't worry about, nor question.
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You're asking a solid and weighty question.
Before I would take the job / MOS / rating that would put me in the position to do so, I'd do the thinking and soul-searching - not when the order came to flick the cover, insert the key, and hit the button.
Historically, the U.S. is the only country to have used a nuclear weapon (okay, an atomic weapon) for anything other than testing. In retrospect, the bombs we dropped on Japan, which took hundreds of thousands of lives, arguably saved millions of lives; also, the bombs cut the war's duration considerably (which would also equate to millions more being able to recover from suffering and shortages more quickly).
If we look at Hiroshima and Nagasaki today, they've recovered (well, Japan has recovered from the loss of the population) and both cities look much more prosperous than, say, Detroit.
Since I would do my soul-searching and praying *before* I applied for, or took, the job that would put me on the hot seat when the order was given - I have to confess that, yes, if I were in that position, I would hit the button.
Before I would take the job / MOS / rating that would put me in the position to do so, I'd do the thinking and soul-searching - not when the order came to flick the cover, insert the key, and hit the button.
Historically, the U.S. is the only country to have used a nuclear weapon (okay, an atomic weapon) for anything other than testing. In retrospect, the bombs we dropped on Japan, which took hundreds of thousands of lives, arguably saved millions of lives; also, the bombs cut the war's duration considerably (which would also equate to millions more being able to recover from suffering and shortages more quickly).
If we look at Hiroshima and Nagasaki today, they've recovered (well, Japan has recovered from the loss of the population) and both cities look much more prosperous than, say, Detroit.
Since I would do my soul-searching and praying *before* I applied for, or took, the job that would put me on the hot seat when the order was given - I have to confess that, yes, if I were in that position, I would hit the button.
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SN Greg Wright
PO1 Joseph Glennon - Lol I'm the civvie version of it, Boats. I'm an Able-bodied Seaman, unlimited. I'm outta upvotes, but I owe you one.
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When I enlisted I chose to go Navy instead of USMC because I new I could save lives as a Corpsman AND go FMF, but I didn't think I could pull a trigger. After separation in 1969 and 14 years in law enforcement, I philosophically & morally changed such that I now know sometimes pulling the trigger IS saving life!
So, yes, I could/would push the button!
So, yes, I could/would push the button!
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In Sub School we were asked the following question: If it meant surrendering your Country, or initiating a nuclear strike what would you do? To a man, everyone answered -- initiate the strike.
As warfighters, we understand better than most the responsibility of control of the "nuclear option". Our loyality, our decision to carry out our orders in this regard was never called into question, nor did we ever doubt our ability to carry out those orders. All the posturing, second guessing, moral theorizing, and doubt concerning the carrying out a strategic directive on the orders of the President, makes for a good movie plot. But fantasy never begets reality, and in the reality of the Cold War, our resolve to act decisively was not then, nor can it be now ever called into question.
As warfighters, we understand better than most the responsibility of control of the "nuclear option". Our loyality, our decision to carry out our orders in this regard was never called into question, nor did we ever doubt our ability to carry out those orders. All the posturing, second guessing, moral theorizing, and doubt concerning the carrying out a strategic directive on the orders of the President, makes for a good movie plot. But fantasy never begets reality, and in the reality of the Cold War, our resolve to act decisively was not then, nor can it be now ever called into question.
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Yes. What a stupid question. If you are in that position you have no choice. If you have any doubts grab your teddy bear find your safe space and suckered your thumb. Again what a stupid question
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SN Greg Wright
CW3 (Join to see) - Toxic, and evidently unteachable. I'll be moving on from this pointless exchange.
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A1C Robert Novak
SP5 Robert Ruck - It should be mentioned that a nuclear weapon launch crew isn't alone in "pushing the button" In my time, a matching signal had to come from SAC Headquarters in Omaha. Without that, the missile could not be launched, period.
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SP5 Robert Ruck
A1C Robert Novak - My unit was a mobile missile unit. My part in the countdown ended at two minutes before launch at which time I was brought a key by two Crewman. The key unlocked the remote switch which when flipped turned the count over to Battery Contro Command. The BCC actually pushed the launch button. Each crew member had critical functions during the countdown. Failure to carry out any one of the numerous functions would result in a failed launch. So in the Pershing System each job was as critical as the next to successfully completing a firing mission. Each member of the crew had to do his job professionally and competently or the button could not be pushed at all. This is different I would think than the way SAC worked. Lot's of interaction between jobs.
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