Posted on Oct 28, 2020
Details below, what would the monthly income be for an outstanding Veteran with these unusual circumstances?
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This is research for a novel, so bear with me, please:
100% Medical Retirement
100% VA Rating
10-15 years TIS
Former O-3, retired as E-7 or E-8
Two-time MoH recipient
Multiple PH recipient with Combat-related disabilities
Single with no dependents
100% Medical Retirement
100% VA Rating
10-15 years TIS
Former O-3, retired as E-7 or E-8
Two-time MoH recipient
Multiple PH recipient with Combat-related disabilities
Single with no dependents
Posted in these groups: DFAS
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)
Medal of Honor
Retirement
Medical Board
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) Medal of Honor Retirement Medical Board
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
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FYSA, a former O3 would not retire as an E7 or E8, assuming he served 10 years commissioned. He would retire as an O3 for pay as long as he did 10 years as an officer.
Also, unlikely to make E7 or E8 with only 10-15 years TIS. It takes 4 years to make O3, assumed he spent a year or 2 as a CPT then resigned his commission and became an E5. (I had a SPC when I was a PL who had been a CPT in the Air Force. Didn't make MAJ so he enlisted in the guard to complete his 20)
Also, unlikely to make E7 or E8 with only 10-15 years TIS. It takes 4 years to make O3, assumed he spent a year or 2 as a CPT then resigned his commission and became an E5. (I had a SPC when I was a PL who had been a CPT in the Air Force. Didn't make MAJ so he enlisted in the guard to complete his 20)
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MSG (Join to see)
LTC (Join to see) - Sir,
Can you post the reference for that? My understanding was that the high 3 applied to commissioned rank as well as enlisted.
Can you post the reference for that? My understanding was that the high 3 applied to commissioned rank as well as enlisted.
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LTC (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - US code Title 10, section 3911, subsection a. To retire as an officer you must serve 20 years, 10 of which must have been as a commissioned officer. However, the SecDef may authorize a waiver to allow retirement as an officer with 8 years commissioned service.
The high 3 only applies to how pay is determined. For example, I pinned O5 in September 2019, I could have retired as LTC after 6 months but in order to receive full LTC pay I have to serve 3 years TIG. High 3 determines rate of payment, not eligibility for payment.
The high 3 only applies to how pay is determined. For example, I pinned O5 in September 2019, I could have retired as LTC after 6 months but in order to receive full LTC pay I have to serve 3 years TIG. High 3 determines rate of payment, not eligibility for payment.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
LTC (Join to see) - thank you for your help.
Do I understand correctly that if he held O-3 for three years, then he would retire with O-3 pay, even if he did not spend 8 or 10 years as an Officer before resigning his commission and therefore retired as an E-7 or E-8? So he could be a "Retired MSG" receiving O-3 retirement pay?
Do I understand correctly that if he held O-3 for three years, then he would retire with O-3 pay, even if he did not spend 8 or 10 years as an Officer before resigning his commission and therefore retired as an E-7 or E-8? So he could be a "Retired MSG" receiving O-3 retirement pay?
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While I know of no regulation the expressly forbids it, the last double MOH recipient wad SGM Dan Daly in 1918. He was even put in for a third that was denied.
They didn't even give a second one to John Basilone, although his actions on Iwo Jima could have warranted it.
They didn't even give a second one to John Basilone, although his actions on Iwo Jima could have warranted it.
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SGT Frank Hewes
It appears from a brief search, that MoH recipients are not considered to be deployable, and get choice of duty stations if still fit for service. That is of course after the award is made.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
SGT Frank Hewes - That has been the practice for the most part since WWI, but I have never been able to find any regulation that states that it has to happen. I agree with the practice, if you are actually alive and the medal isn't being presented to your next of kin, I have no problem with not deploying that person in harms way.
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I can tell you a bit about this. By the time he would have retired you have to have 10 years as an officer. You can make CPT in 5 years. You would be looking at MAJ at the 10-11 year mark. But the VA rating is the same for everyone. The VA would pay 3,106.04. When it comes to the Army retirement it is a bit different. If you are medically retired before the 20 year mark you would get the greater of the two. An E-8 with 15 years has a base pay of about $5,000. He would only be entitled to 75% of his retirement for only doing 15 years. He would be looking at $1875 a month. The VA is more so he would only get the VA. There is a way you can get both. Combat Related Special Compensation (CRSC) is a program that was created for disability and non-disability military retirees with combat-related disabilities. It is a tax free entitlement that you will be paid each month along with any retired pay you may already be receiving. Basically, if he was wounded in combat and medically retired he would get the $3,106.04 and the $1,875 combined.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
That CRSC information is very helpful! The character was indeed wounded in combat.
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SSG (Join to see)
If you do not medically retire, but just retire with 20 years, and also are rated by the VA, you can receive retirement pay at retirement age in addition to VA disability.
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For your character his VA disability pay would be $3,106 a month Tax free. Because he was medically retired he cannot collect VA and medical retirement pay, they would offset. However if he had a regular retirement then he would get both Va disability and his army pension. Hope that helps for your book
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MAJ Tom McCuin
Unless of course he was entitled to Special Combat Related Compensation, which one assumes he would be, in which case he can receive both his pension and his disability, often in full.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
MAJ Ken Landgren - I found out that it's possible to have a good life on a 90% VA rating in Mexico. Nonetheless, I work and I invest and I give to others.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
MAJ Ken Landgren - It's good to be able to help. I give a fixed percentage of my income to faith-based organizations that are fighting the most important fights, and I do some other giving sporadically. I hadn't heard about the VA caregiver funds. I'm not sure I/my wife would qualify. My rating is from many minor ratings, so my life is fairly normal.
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1SG (Join to see)
MAJ Tom McCuin that is correct for combat related special compensation (CRSC) But its a little more complicated. The retiree has to apply for this and provide Evidence That the Injuries incurred in combat (qualifies for a Purple Heart) or in combat related activities, like war simulation training (war games, live fire, hand to hand training etc), hazardous duty (parachuting, demo etc) or caused by an instrumentality of war ( Agent Orange, weapon etc). So let say the 50% rating for sleep apnea would not have been cause by combat so that would not be paid under CRSC. While this is for a book and a fictional character the author can make up that his injuries where all combat caused.
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$4,494.72 paid by VA -- which represents $1,388.68 Medal Of Honor Pension plus $3,106.04 in VA Disability Compensation. They are ordinarily combined into a single check. It will increase by 1.3% on 12/01/2020 to $4,553.15. As a Chapter 31 retiree, the military retirement would be offset by the basic Compensation amount amount received from VA. Concurrent receipt would not be allowed, the way it is with a longevity retirement. Your scenario does not provide enough information. It states the VA percentage, but not the military percentage of disability, which would be necessary to determine the Chapter 61 benefit amount. It also does not state how much of the disability is the direct result of combat or instrumentalities of war. There is the likelihood of the individual also receiving Combat Related Special Compensation -- which is a whole other story. In my case, my Chapter 61 retirement was based on a rating of 70% disabled -- chump change as an E-5 when compared to my VA compensation which is two and a half times my retired pay. The VA has me at the next higher rating above 100% (SMC under subsection S). Keep in mind that the individual would most likely be entitled to Social Security Disability Insurance benefits which, depending on their earnings, could easily be another $2,500.00 per month. That, plus CRSC, could give them a monthly income of upwards of $8K per month tax free. There are eight disability percentages above 100%, plus CRSC is a very complicated formula. Keep in mind the the VA disability percentage, the military disability percentage and the CRSC percentage frequently are not the same. I have different disability percentages from each program. The Army has me at 70% for retirement purposes. For Combat Related Compensation the The Army have me at 100%. But the VA has me at SMC-S, the next higher rating above 100%. Are you confused enough? There are additional increases for loss of use of certain body parts or functions. There is even a clothing allowance when there are certain prosthetic appliances being used. Even though the VA disability will be the greater benefit, meaning the veteran will not receive their military retirement check, you still need the benefit amount before offset to determine the CRSC amount.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
This is extremely detailed and helpful, thank you!
I believe the character would have 100% military disability, and 100% CRSC. No prosthetics, not above 100% for the VA. It does indeed get complicated!
Do you know how a double MoH would be handled in regard to the MoH stipend?
I believe the character would have 100% military disability, and 100% CRSC. No prosthetics, not above 100% for the VA. It does indeed get complicated!
Do you know how a double MoH would be handled in regard to the MoH stipend?
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SGT Robert Pryor
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA - The VA web site just shows the MOH pension just once, so I am not aware that it could be doubled.
https://www.va.gov/disability/compensation-rates/special-benefit-allowance-rates/
To compute CRSC check out the following:
https://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/Benefit-Library/Federal-Benefits/Combat-Related-Special-Compensation-(CRSC)-?serv=128
If you want me to check your calculations, let me know via a private message. When I got my CRSC the Army actually made an error in their math and I caught it -- being a cheap bastard and all. Another point: If the residuals of the veterans' combat related injuries can qualify them for a 100% service connected rating, without regards to PTSD, they could easily get PTSD rated at 70%, especially in light of two awards of the Medal Of Honor. In that case, the veteran would be entitled to SMC-S as long as the veteran is rated 100% for one or a series of actions, and can be rated 60% or higher for some other action. That would be a given because you can't get more than one award of the Medal Of Honor for the same action. In my case both times I was wounded I ended up alone. The first time I was shot in the arm so it was no big deal. The second time was a couple of months later and I was shot all to hell. Because there is no separating which time I was alone and wounded might have caused my PTSD, it is a separate event and entitled me to SMC-S. In my case, my disabilities combine to 100% without regard to my PTSD. Additionally, my PTSD is rated service connected at 70% disabling, and I only have the DSC and a couple of awards of the Purple Heart, so someone with two awards of the MOH would easily get PTSD rated at 70%. In other words, it would be very unlikely that the veteran would be a flat 100% by VA -- not entitled to Special Monthly Compensation. Yes, the military would have stopped at the 100% for CRSC because there is no provision for anything higher. I guess you can see it is really complicated, but I used to make a living handling veterans' claims. My recommendation to you is that your veteran should be receiving to SMC-S because they are 100% for combat related trauma, plus has PTSD. That would make their VA benefit amount, which would include the MOH pension, $4,865.33 per month, subject to the December 1st COLA. It would be a lot more believable to someone like myself who has been a professional in the field of veterans benefits. However, if the PTSD rating was necessary to bump them up to 100% in the first place, than go with the 100% amount I previously gave you.
https://www.va.gov/disability/compensation-rates/special-benefit-allowance-rates/
To compute CRSC check out the following:
https://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/Benefit-Library/Federal-Benefits/Combat-Related-Special-Compensation-(CRSC)-?serv=128
If you want me to check your calculations, let me know via a private message. When I got my CRSC the Army actually made an error in their math and I caught it -- being a cheap bastard and all. Another point: If the residuals of the veterans' combat related injuries can qualify them for a 100% service connected rating, without regards to PTSD, they could easily get PTSD rated at 70%, especially in light of two awards of the Medal Of Honor. In that case, the veteran would be entitled to SMC-S as long as the veteran is rated 100% for one or a series of actions, and can be rated 60% or higher for some other action. That would be a given because you can't get more than one award of the Medal Of Honor for the same action. In my case both times I was wounded I ended up alone. The first time I was shot in the arm so it was no big deal. The second time was a couple of months later and I was shot all to hell. Because there is no separating which time I was alone and wounded might have caused my PTSD, it is a separate event and entitled me to SMC-S. In my case, my disabilities combine to 100% without regard to my PTSD. Additionally, my PTSD is rated service connected at 70% disabling, and I only have the DSC and a couple of awards of the Purple Heart, so someone with two awards of the MOH would easily get PTSD rated at 70%. In other words, it would be very unlikely that the veteran would be a flat 100% by VA -- not entitled to Special Monthly Compensation. Yes, the military would have stopped at the 100% for CRSC because there is no provision for anything higher. I guess you can see it is really complicated, but I used to make a living handling veterans' claims. My recommendation to you is that your veteran should be receiving to SMC-S because they are 100% for combat related trauma, plus has PTSD. That would make their VA benefit amount, which would include the MOH pension, $4,865.33 per month, subject to the December 1st COLA. It would be a lot more believable to someone like myself who has been a professional in the field of veterans benefits. However, if the PTSD rating was necessary to bump them up to 100% in the first place, than go with the 100% amount I previously gave you.
2020 VA special benefit allowances rates | Veterans Affairs
View 2020 special benefit rates that may apply to you if you qualify for an automobile or clothing allowance, or a Medal of Honor pension.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
SGT Robert Pryor - this is extraordinarily helpful, thank you so much. Your point about SMC makes sense. I'm sure I will be messaging you about this.
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SGT Robert Pryor
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA - Roger that. I can then tell you if your numbers all work. The only way your veteran would NOT have been getting SMC is if they had little or no physical disabilities -- or they had a totally incompetent Vet Rep. When you message me, it might help if you give a short synopsis of their disabilities other than PTSD. Just so you know, every claim I have handled since about 1985 the veterans got 30% or higher for PTSD as long as they had been awarded a CIB, a Combat Action Ribbon or a Commendation Medal with "V" device or higher. That 30% is a minimum award for anyone who has looked the elephant in the eye. Your character certainly did a lot more than that and it made them who they are.
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I realize this is fiction, but it does take 5 years to make CPT.
Starting enlisted, getting to E7 in 7 years and E8 in 12 years is fast tracking, doing all the right things at the right time. One date of rank between E4 and E7 at the wrong time in an FY adds a year to the process.
A CPT would be at least 6 years total service, 1 as a CPT, before he decides he had enough and starts the process to revert to enlisted, that process could take 6-12 months and that would start as an E5, with credit for BLC having completed BOLC.
Even if HRC determined E6 (and that would be very unusual circumstances), he would still need school and time in grade to make E7, about 3 years.
So reverting to E5 at 7 years and assuming best case scenario at each grade, E6 at 9 total years, E7 at 12 total years, eligible for E8 at 15 total years. That would mean pinning E8 at 15, and a med retirement at 15 and change.
This best case scenario is top of each list and getting the schools done immediately.
For the purposes of reasonable suspension of disbelief, I would not go past E7 on this.
But it's fiction, you can do whatever you want. Tom Clancy once placed an Air Force "corporal" on the the Air Force One crew, and we still bought his books after that.
Also, the MoH stipend is $1,329.58. But I cannot find anything that says it doubles for two.
Archie Griffin has two Heisman trophies, and he still only gets one Heisman vote every year.
Starting enlisted, getting to E7 in 7 years and E8 in 12 years is fast tracking, doing all the right things at the right time. One date of rank between E4 and E7 at the wrong time in an FY adds a year to the process.
A CPT would be at least 6 years total service, 1 as a CPT, before he decides he had enough and starts the process to revert to enlisted, that process could take 6-12 months and that would start as an E5, with credit for BLC having completed BOLC.
Even if HRC determined E6 (and that would be very unusual circumstances), he would still need school and time in grade to make E7, about 3 years.
So reverting to E5 at 7 years and assuming best case scenario at each grade, E6 at 9 total years, E7 at 12 total years, eligible for E8 at 15 total years. That would mean pinning E8 at 15, and a med retirement at 15 and change.
This best case scenario is top of each list and getting the schools done immediately.
For the purposes of reasonable suspension of disbelief, I would not go past E7 on this.
But it's fiction, you can do whatever you want. Tom Clancy once placed an Air Force "corporal" on the the Air Force One crew, and we still bought his books after that.
Also, the MoH stipend is $1,329.58. But I cannot find anything that says it doubles for two.
Archie Griffin has two Heisman trophies, and he still only gets one Heisman vote every year.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
Excellent input, thank you. Your timeline and rank explanation is very helpful.
Regarding the MoH stipend, I'm hoping someone knows the right answer, but I would guess that no one would begrudge a double MoH recipient a double stipend.
Regarding the MoH stipend, I'm hoping someone knows the right answer, but I would guess that no one would begrudge a double MoH recipient a double stipend.
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SGM Jeff Mccloud
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA - if it were me, I'd say pay it out, but I also think Archie Griffin should be allowed to cast two Heisman votes every year.
The system says different.
And DFAS would probably say, "you can go to two dive schools, you still only get one dive pay, same with MoH."
The system says different.
And DFAS would probably say, "you can go to two dive schools, you still only get one dive pay, same with MoH."
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If it helps I believe he would get an additional $1200 a month stipend for being a MoH recipient, he would only get that once not once per award. I think it is $1200, could be $1000.....too lazy to look it up myself.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
It's easy to find the stipend. I have no idea if there's a regulation covering a double MoH, since it hasn't happened in over a century, but I'm hoping someone on here knows the right answer. I would guess it would double. Who would begrudge an a double MoH recipient a double stipend and double retirement bonus?
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
It's fiction, my friend. He wouldn't be the first to get two MoHs, just the first in over a century.
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