Posted on May 30, 2017
Do combat arms soldiers look down on fellow combat arms brethren if they have deployed and not been awarded a combat badge/medal/ribbon?
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It seems like something so trivial, but is just deploying and doing your job enough to keep the respect of your combat arms peers? Does the fact that you were hit by an IED on a convoy, close enough to a falling mortar round, or engaged by small arms fire really make one a more qualified combat arms soldier? What are thoughts on those who were never in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Awards
Combat Arms
Combat Infantry Badge (CIB)
Badges
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 188
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I hate to say it but most combat action badges are expert marksmanship badges for terrorists.
As an 88M I trained my drivers good enough not to run over IEDs and avoid roadside bombs.
And combat arms soldiers? Yeah they got my respect for having rough job that doesn’t translate to much in the civilian world. But them being “tougher” is not aways the case. I’ve mopped the floor with many combat arms soldiers through combatives and Jiu Jitsu training to know it’s not just the MOS that makes them tough of effective.
As an 88M I trained my drivers good enough not to run over IEDs and avoid roadside bombs.
And combat arms soldiers? Yeah they got my respect for having rough job that doesn’t translate to much in the civilian world. But them being “tougher” is not aways the case. I’ve mopped the floor with many combat arms soldiers through combatives and Jiu Jitsu training to know it’s not just the MOS that makes them tough of effective.
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Ignorance can be found in any ranks,we also adore our rivalries, but ONLY a narrow mind denies we are a TEAM including MANY support elements ,I recall how our GLORIOUS mechanics in the 1/10 and 1/7 Cav,t they worked MANY weekends.The you have that kind of IDIOT who party's while their track is being serviced in the bay.
You are well fed the Medics are good.and YOU think you're ABOVE it all?
Funny...I NEVER met ANY elite guy like that.
Hell I honor those who FIGHT me as they are soldiers with the same CRAPPY job I have.
You are well fed the Medics are good.and YOU think you're ABOVE it all?
Funny...I NEVER met ANY elite guy like that.
Hell I honor those who FIGHT me as they are soldiers with the same CRAPPY job I have.
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Let me start off by saying I respect ALL Veterans regardless of branch of service or MOS. I don't think it's so much as looking down as it is a matter of pride. My brother was in the Navy, my best man went into the Air Force and I have close friends and relatives who were Marines. I give all of them crap for not being Army but I respect that they served. Some of my Marine friends were Infantry but they were not Airborne so I give them crap. I got my CIB before I got my EIB. The badges are just status symbols. You will tend to group up with others who are in the same status group as you. It doesn't make us better. It just makes us different. I served a couple of years in the TXARNG after getting my CIB, with the exception of the BN CSM I was the only NCO in my battalion to have it. They thought I was a superhero. I was just a SSG with more experience. Nothing more. It's just like a football rivalry. You talk crap before the game but when it's over you are shaking hands and patting each other on the back. Just my view on this. AATW
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For my point of view it’s a personal choice and the individual involved.
During a two hour battle in the Nam where the NVA attempted a human wave assault; which was not a common tactic. Greg (RIP) and I, both E-5’s had our 43rd Cambodian Company with 112 men in an RON position. One of our OP/LP’s fired a six round burst alerting us that trouble was in route. We were at a 100% posture and when I arrived at the perimeter I saw the muzzle flashes in the moonless night. With calling in artillery and CSA we were able to haunt the assault and inflict a high body count. The day before our detachment Captain came out visit us for a few days of our 30 day combat mission. We knew the reason why; he didn’t have a CIB or any medals for valor. With this opportunity presented him he did not show up. After the firing stopped Greg, who at the time was at the other side of the perimeter in case it was a diversion with the main assault to hit the other side. We were walking through the perimeter and Greg asked, “is the captain with you?” I replied, “no I haven’t seen him.” Just about then we saw a head pop out of a fighting position. There were three fighting positions in the center for our 60mm Mortar crew. Greg shouted, “is that you sir?” As he started climbing out of the hole Greg then added, “sir, you can come out now it’s all over.” In other words at the moment of danger he dropped into the fighting position and stayed hidden during the firefight. For his action that night he was awarded a CIB and a Bronze Star with a Very. The original narrative was the account of my actions during the attack. Major Bridgewater the B-40 commander submitted the paperwork for a BS w/V on my behalf. But the good major rotated back to the states. With the new Major in command the captain in question typed up the award for himself and the new Major gave me a direct order to sign as a witness because at first I protested.
In 1996 I was able to get in contact with Major Bridgewater and toward the end of a three hour phone call asked if I had received the award. I explained that caption XXXXXXX rewrote the award for himself. (Ret, Colonel) Bridgewater exploded and took the time to resubmit the paperwork through Sen Kobe’s office because at the time I was an Instructor at Ft McCoy, WI. It was approved and it was awarded after my graduation from the Senior NCO Battle Staff (2-S ASI) Course. Hell it even made it into the ‘Soldier Magazine’. But the rest of the time that the captain in question remained he was not ever respected and was the butt of many jokes. It is reprehensible for anyone to steel the valor of another, (taken from the movie ‘where the Iron Crosses Grow’. I will never review his name because I never want his family to find out the truth.
One other point; in Special Forces, rank means nothing for it only determines the you’re paid each month. It’s your reputation that determines your status with your teammates, reputation is everything.
There is another problem; the Bronze Star was for Valor in WWII. At some point it had duel purpose. First for a singular act of heroism a Victory is attached but if for Meritorious Service the ribbon is black which we refer to as a Participation Trophy.
During a two hour battle in the Nam where the NVA attempted a human wave assault; which was not a common tactic. Greg (RIP) and I, both E-5’s had our 43rd Cambodian Company with 112 men in an RON position. One of our OP/LP’s fired a six round burst alerting us that trouble was in route. We were at a 100% posture and when I arrived at the perimeter I saw the muzzle flashes in the moonless night. With calling in artillery and CSA we were able to haunt the assault and inflict a high body count. The day before our detachment Captain came out visit us for a few days of our 30 day combat mission. We knew the reason why; he didn’t have a CIB or any medals for valor. With this opportunity presented him he did not show up. After the firing stopped Greg, who at the time was at the other side of the perimeter in case it was a diversion with the main assault to hit the other side. We were walking through the perimeter and Greg asked, “is the captain with you?” I replied, “no I haven’t seen him.” Just about then we saw a head pop out of a fighting position. There were three fighting positions in the center for our 60mm Mortar crew. Greg shouted, “is that you sir?” As he started climbing out of the hole Greg then added, “sir, you can come out now it’s all over.” In other words at the moment of danger he dropped into the fighting position and stayed hidden during the firefight. For his action that night he was awarded a CIB and a Bronze Star with a Very. The original narrative was the account of my actions during the attack. Major Bridgewater the B-40 commander submitted the paperwork for a BS w/V on my behalf. But the good major rotated back to the states. With the new Major in command the captain in question typed up the award for himself and the new Major gave me a direct order to sign as a witness because at first I protested.
In 1996 I was able to get in contact with Major Bridgewater and toward the end of a three hour phone call asked if I had received the award. I explained that caption XXXXXXX rewrote the award for himself. (Ret, Colonel) Bridgewater exploded and took the time to resubmit the paperwork through Sen Kobe’s office because at the time I was an Instructor at Ft McCoy, WI. It was approved and it was awarded after my graduation from the Senior NCO Battle Staff (2-S ASI) Course. Hell it even made it into the ‘Soldier Magazine’. But the rest of the time that the captain in question remained he was not ever respected and was the butt of many jokes. It is reprehensible for anyone to steel the valor of another, (taken from the movie ‘where the Iron Crosses Grow’. I will never review his name because I never want his family to find out the truth.
One other point; in Special Forces, rank means nothing for it only determines the you’re paid each month. It’s your reputation that determines your status with your teammates, reputation is everything.
There is another problem; the Bronze Star was for Valor in WWII. At some point it had duel purpose. First for a singular act of heroism a Victory is attached but if for Meritorious Service the ribbon is black which we refer to as a Participation Trophy.
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MSG Mark Stinson
I would also like to add the following. My dad enlisted in the Army in 1936 and was assigned to a mounted Infantry Regiment at Ft Clayton, CZ. When the war broke out my dad was part of the Torch Operation and had an Arrowhead affixed to the ribbon awarded for the operation. Later he was assigned to Detachment 101, OSS in the CBI. After he completed the OSS Jump School he then went through their training course. He only had 8 jumps, 5 to be Airborne qualified and 3 insertions into China to harass the Japanese Army rampaging through China. Each jump was considered a combat jump and he wore 3 stars on his jump wings.
I asked him about awards for heroism and he responded that in OSS all the SO’s were conducting operations and everything they accomplished was considered in-the-line of duty and no valor awards were received. After a review of the AAR’s were reopened he was awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and a CIB. Later when he was in his 70’s I had the opportunity to go through his 201 File and sent copies of his time with OSS to the Special Forces HQ at Ft Bragg and they sent him a Special Forces Tab with orders. When I showed him the orders and the Tab that was sent he started crying. He never spoke of his time as an SO in OSS. He was promoted from a SSG to a 2ndLT and by wars end he was a 1stLT. After the war he reenlisted but was told that with a GED he’d have to take several courses to keep his commission. He responded that he wanted to finally go home having been overseas starting in 1936. So they revoked his commission and reduced him to a Master Sergeant E-8. He retired after 30 years as a CSM.
The photos; the team picture with my dad in the back row far left, the roster was copied from the official OSS Roster which was declassified in 1998 (dad’s name is three from the bottom, Stinson Woodrow W RA 6393838), wearing his riding britches and boots holding his campaign hat while at Ft Clayton, CZ, the OSS Jump Wings as well as the unit patch were made in India with silver bullion and the last photo shows dad when he was a SGM. He was old school and everyone from Major on down would never dare to chastise him and as a CSM he was the Signal Brigade Commo Chief and his Colonel advised that my dad only reported to him and that he was his CSM.
I asked him about awards for heroism and he responded that in OSS all the SO’s were conducting operations and everything they accomplished was considered in-the-line of duty and no valor awards were received. After a review of the AAR’s were reopened he was awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and a CIB. Later when he was in his 70’s I had the opportunity to go through his 201 File and sent copies of his time with OSS to the Special Forces HQ at Ft Bragg and they sent him a Special Forces Tab with orders. When I showed him the orders and the Tab that was sent he started crying. He never spoke of his time as an SO in OSS. He was promoted from a SSG to a 2ndLT and by wars end he was a 1stLT. After the war he reenlisted but was told that with a GED he’d have to take several courses to keep his commission. He responded that he wanted to finally go home having been overseas starting in 1936. So they revoked his commission and reduced him to a Master Sergeant E-8. He retired after 30 years as a CSM.
The photos; the team picture with my dad in the back row far left, the roster was copied from the official OSS Roster which was declassified in 1998 (dad’s name is three from the bottom, Stinson Woodrow W RA 6393838), wearing his riding britches and boots holding his campaign hat while at Ft Clayton, CZ, the OSS Jump Wings as well as the unit patch were made in India with silver bullion and the last photo shows dad when he was a SGM. He was old school and everyone from Major on down would never dare to chastise him and as a CSM he was the Signal Brigade Commo Chief and his Colonel advised that my dad only reported to him and that he was his CSM.
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Badges are important to the Army. Why? Because when everyone is wearing the same uniform that is how you can tell the guys who have done stuff. That’s not to say those that don’t haven’t done anything but when you only get a few seconds to size someone up the badges stand out. Just like every officer has a college degree. Some enlisted, actually, a lot of enlisted soldiers have degrees but there is no badge for that so you have to actually talk to them and get to know them to find out. So a CAB is just a participation trophy they hand out to the non Infantry people(some Infantry that didn’t get to do Infantry stuff). I think it’s just a waste of material- but I’m bias and hold a very unpopular view of the CAB. There does need to be something for the other direct combat MOS’ like Armor to distinguish them from the cook that was in a fob when a mortar hit on the other side of the FOB.
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I am old, I have a dumb question, What is a CAB. I know what a CIB and CMB is but what is a CAB. ?
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Who really cares? If you have served honorably and we're willing to make the sacrifice , even if it meant your life,in my eyes there is no greater man made reward..
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I spent 24 years in the Army - 7 as a Cavalry officer and 17 as a Foreign Area Officer. Spent my time in Korea for 2 years to command because I didn’t want a basic training command. Spent more time overseas in Russia, Ukraine, Central Asia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Africa, you name it. Wasn’t allowed to go to Ranger school as an Armor officer at the time, then did Cavalry Leader’s Course in lieu of Airborne. Broke my knee before SFAS and stayed FAO. To anyone who looked down on me because I had a slicked uniform - whatever. Just because you went to a course doesn’t mean you can automatically lead. Prove yourself and I’ll respect you. Look down on someone without tabs and you just proved you aren’t a leader.
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