Posted on Aug 9, 2016
Do MWR civilians have the authority to boss around soldiers and NCOs?
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So I got placed on a detail at the base gym filling in for an NCO that just had a baby..anyways the manager and other MWR staff are quite rude to the soldiers and treat us as if we are employees of the MWR and they are our first line supervisor. My question is, do they really have rhe authority to do this, boss us around and so on. I was talking to my boss and was told that "it's time to assist and clean" by the manager. They bark orders at us and I'm about to rip into this manager.
MWR
CSM
Command
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 10
Assuming it is an official BMM tasking though the Post G3, assuming the duties required are part of the BMM commitment approved by the post commander, and then yes, they have the authority to direct you to complete appropriate tasks.
They should be polite, professional, and speak to you in a reasonable manner. Unless they would like to have the BMM tasking canceled by post and then fend for themselves on completing those duties they will conduct themselves in an appropriate manner. As the G3 SGM I pulled more than a few of our Sm from BMM tasking’s when the SM were not being taken care of, abused, or otherwise were placed in an unprofessional predicament. (Tasked to MWR for grounds maintenance, transported to the Senior NCO BMM quarters and cut their lawn, Tasked to general duties as needed, made to wash the civilian managers trailer and truck, tasked as a lifeguard, put to work in the main building as a cashier, so the civ cashier could take off each Friday for a three day weekend.)
They should be polite, professional, and speak to you in a reasonable manner. Unless they would like to have the BMM tasking canceled by post and then fend for themselves on completing those duties they will conduct themselves in an appropriate manner. As the G3 SGM I pulled more than a few of our Sm from BMM tasking’s when the SM were not being taken care of, abused, or otherwise were placed in an unprofessional predicament. (Tasked to MWR for grounds maintenance, transported to the Senior NCO BMM quarters and cut their lawn, Tasked to general duties as needed, made to wash the civilian managers trailer and truck, tasked as a lifeguard, put to work in the main building as a cashier, so the civ cashier could take off each Friday for a three day weekend.)
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SGT (Join to see)
We are pretty much janitors, we are barked at to go clean this, go re-rack weights, empty trash cans, go clean the bathrooms and so on. None of the soldiers or NCO'S have any clear guidelines on what our function is. I've informed PSG about this but nobody seems to care.
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CPT Joseph K Murdock
I don't know if a Memorandum of Agreement delegating duties to the soldiers is appropriate or not.
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SGM Erik Marquez
CPT Joseph K Murdock - At the post, or MSC level, where BMM is requested and approved. Part of the request and approval process is a detailed justification by the requesting agency, to include specific duties the BMM will perform. |That request is commonly sent through a quarterly committee that decis to approve, deney, or partially approve the BMM request.
If approved, the BMM tasking is sent to subordinate units to fill, those units comply or submit reason why they can not.
The Tasked SM report to the requesting agency and are then assigned a supervisor... said supervise is responsible for all the takings, care and feeding IAW the BMM document. So if, the SM is required to do PT during standard PT times for that post, then the requesting agency must comply.
If the SM is required to report to his organic unit monthly for counseling and welfare check the agency is required to ensure that happens, and time is allotted.
Bottom line, yes, the purpose of, the specific tasks assignable to, the logistical and administrative support needs for the tasked BM Sm is all part of the BMM request.
That said, I can speak only for III CORPS and 1 CD. BMM is not an Army program, it is allowable army wide, but left to a MSC to decide how to implement it.
If approved, the BMM tasking is sent to subordinate units to fill, those units comply or submit reason why they can not.
The Tasked SM report to the requesting agency and are then assigned a supervisor... said supervise is responsible for all the takings, care and feeding IAW the BMM document. So if, the SM is required to do PT during standard PT times for that post, then the requesting agency must comply.
If the SM is required to report to his organic unit monthly for counseling and welfare check the agency is required to ensure that happens, and time is allotted.
Bottom line, yes, the purpose of, the specific tasks assignable to, the logistical and administrative support needs for the tasked BM Sm is all part of the BMM request.
That said, I can speak only for III CORPS and 1 CD. BMM is not an Army program, it is allowable army wide, but left to a MSC to decide how to implement it.
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SFC J Fullerton
SGT (Join to see) - Please elaborate on what your role is and how many Soldiers are in this tasking with you. As a SGT, what have you been placed in charge of in regards to this tasking?
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SGT (Join to see) IMHO, I would take it up with the NCO support channel/COC. There is a right way and a wrong way to conduct business. Use tact and be the better person. Communication is the key!
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Over my military career I've found that some but not all civilians like to assert what little authority they have against military members when they feel they can get away with it!!
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I worked with MWR at two bases when I was enlisted. Yes, you can be put under the authority of a civilian as far as day to day tasks, but there is always a military superior who is in charge of the service personnel attached to MWR. My Senior Chief told me I worked with them, but I was not Mrs. X's stooge. I had a job to do and if anything odd was being asked or I had a problem, I went to him over it.
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It is your duty to follow the order of those you are assigned to support under these conditions, having said that they must treat you with respect. If youbarebtalking NCO, they must assign you work commensurate with your grade. The assignment of BMM does not warrant an elevation in the staffs status it simply augments them. Take this to you COC.
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Execute their "orders" to the best of your ability, then report any abuse or misuse by the staff at the gym to your Chain-of-command.
I assure you that I would look into it and find out the real deal.
If you read the civvies the Riot Act and refuse to do the work they ask you to do, you invite shenanigans. On the spot, discretion is the better part of valor.
I assure you that I would look into it and find out the real deal.
If you read the civvies the Riot Act and refuse to do the work they ask you to do, you invite shenanigans. On the spot, discretion is the better part of valor.
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The answer is certainly YES - given that you are on detail to the MWR facility. I would hope that the MWR folks are mature enough to treat soldiers like they would want to be treated but know there are many that are not. Some MWR employees are former soldiers that figure they can take their frustrations from being a soldier out on the detail folks they are assigned. I would hope that the unit CSM would have a quiet talk with the employee supervisor and that would stop the abuse. Failing that a talk with the MWR Director might be next.
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So I just found out this is a red cycle tasking so we have to do what the tell us to do which is fine, I'll play the game, it's the way we are being treated and talked to is what rubs me the wrong way.
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CPT John Sheridan
Red cycle or not, there has to be some basis on which the tasking was made. It's perfectly reasonable for you to ask for that and to ask for an explanation of responsibilities. You say "we". Are you the senior ranking member on the detail? If so, you should take the initiative to approach the manager and raise the issue respectfully and tactfully.
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As a SGT, the tasking should be befitting of your rank. If you are senior in a group of Soldiers tasked to the gym, your job is to supervise your Soldiers in the individual tasks given by the gym manager. If the tasking is assigned to an NCO (SGT) because of the level of responsibility, then you should not be performing duties outside that scope. Are you the only Soldier in the tasking, or are you part of a group?
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SFC J Fullerton
MSG Pat Colby - Never was my experience. NCO's who were assigned to Red Cycle taskings and details were in supervisory roles. NCOIC of flag detail, post clean up, guard etc. The G3 taskings were the same. If the Gym detail specifically required an E5, that meant the level of responsibility was above E4 and below and there likely was a detail of Soldiers the NCO was in charge of. Or at the very least accountable and responsible for security, property, etc. If there was no rank requirement for the tasking and the job is basically custodial, then the unit should not have assigned an NCO to the tasking. So if this SGT is not in charge of something and just there to do what ever shit detail a civilian gives him, then there is a reason that he was sent instead of a Private that we don't know. That was not the norm during my day.
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MSG Pat Colby
SFC J Fullerton - (NOT trying to start a fight with you.) I actually experienced the flip side of it. As a SSG, I got stuck on SD for a 5 month stretch assisting the Library of an NCO Academy. Counting books and grading tests. Mind numbing bullshit work that a Private could have easily done. The rational of having an NCO as opposed to a Private is NCO's generally police themselves up and need little supervision. With a Private, it's not always the case and then you need an NCO to watch and supervise the Private.
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SFC J Fullerton
MSG Pat Colby - No fight here MSG. Just stating that it was the norm during my years that NCO's were given NCO tasks, in the case of tasking and details, they were in charge of the Joes doing the detail, not just another body.
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