Posted on Aug 24, 2018
SGT UH-60 Helicopter Repairer
7.23K
40
39
3
3
0
Let's say a Sergeant Major pushes out a uniform memorandum but it's only enforced on the enlisted Soldiers and not the officer side of the house. What are the consequences if I refuse to counsel Soldiers who don't adhere to this until it's 100% across the board? Topic of discussion involves flight uniforms versus ground uniforms, one you can DX if you get oils and stains on them while working and the other you can't. I'd rather my Soldiers wear the flight uniforms while turning wrenches on helicopters without having to worry about trashing their good uniforms. Thanks for your input!
Posted in these groups: Spyplane Aviation4276e14c Uniforms
Avatar feed
Responses: 14
LTC Psychological Operations Officer
10
10
0
Edited >1 y ago
What strikes me as really odd is that I never encountered a SGM/CSM who would even think about putting out a policy memo under his own signature rather than the commanders. It shows such a basic ignorance of command authority that I wonder how that person ever became a SGM/CSM in the first place. Of course, I also wonder about a commander who would allow that to remain out there as well. But as a disclaimer, that was 20 years ago so if they have somehow altered basic command authority doctrine since then, please disregard my comment.

Edit: you didn't mention it in the original post, but if the SGM/CSM memo had the authority line For The Commander on it, then the memo would apply to everyone, including officers. Commanders may delegate signature authority to members of the command staff, including NCOs. Perhaps the commander delegated signature authority for areas such as uniform policy to the SGM/CSM. If that were the case, and the memo had For the Commander on it, it carries the same weight as if the Commander signed it. But if it just went out under the CSM signature block without an authority line, then it wouldn't have authority over anybody as a policy.
(10)
Comment
(0)
SGT UH-60 Helicopter Repairer
SGT (Join to see)
>1 y
Thank you for this. It's these little things I'm still learning. I'll have to look at the memorandum when I get back to the hangar.
(0)
Reply
(0)
LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
>1 y
LTC (Join to see) you beat me to it.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Ralph E Kelley
SFC Ralph E Kelley
>1 y
I was thinking pretty much along the same line except flipped - CSM with Commander's Authority first then ... that's not what the question said.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Michael Hasbun
8
8
0
No one has to adhere to it. The CSM is the Commanders advisor only. He or she does not set policy. Having said that, it's very easy for them to get their Boss's signature on it, making it official... Influence and authority can often substitute for each other..
(8)
Comment
(0)
SGT UH-60 Helicopter Repairer
SGT (Join to see)
>1 y
Thank you, I'm just checking to make sure I got a leg to lean on with this.
(0)
Reply
(0)
MAJ Corporate Buyer
MAJ (Join to see)
>1 y
SFC Michael Hasbun is correct. But just remember who the CSM works for. I wouldn't make it a point to piss him or her off. SGT (Join to see)
(1)
Reply
(0)
CSM Richard StCyr
CSM Richard StCyr
>1 y
MAJ (Join to see) - I got pop corn....
(2)
Reply
(0)
SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
>1 y
MAJ (Join to see) Hence my ppint of mentioning the CSM can easily have his boss sign stuff..
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CSM Darieus ZaGara
5
5
0
Standard are built by NCO’s, written as policy by Commanders and then upheld by NCOs and Officers. The CSM is the keeper of the standards, policies and regulations. I would have to believe that the CSM with his or her Commander has determined the standard in the Motor Pool, Flight Line or otherwise.

Having said that Soldiers are issued coveralls and should be able to wear them as well when working in vehicles, therefore able to slip out of them when leaving the primary work area. As for soiling, Soldiers received an annual allotment to replace their attire. The real issue at hand here is the CSM gone rogue, or die he have the Commanders support. By the way, why don’t you ask him?

Thank you for your service. I for one would not pit myself against a CSM at any grade. Approach it respectfully sharing your opinion and providing options. In the end of the Day the CSM represents the Commander, doudtful he did this on his own. P.S. what does this say about your Commander if he or she does not know! Command Ckimate is a tricky thing.
(5)
Comment
(0)
LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
>1 y
SPC Brent Melton - I don't think CSM Darieus ZaGara is advocating for a soldier to wear his duty uniform exclusively while engaging in equipment maintenance, getting them stained on purpose and then replacing them. I think his,point was that if you happen to stain a uniform, then there is a uniform allowance. I think every leader understands that the uniform allowance is competing among many many clothing bag items.

As an Ordnance guy who grew up in a DS maintenance unit, if you don't have at least two sets of coveralls to work in, then there are strange things afoot at CIF. They should be DX-able once they get bad. Tip: wash your coveralls with detergent and a 12oz can of Coca Cola. It gets all the petroleum stains out. One of my NCOs showed me that to get GAA out of mine.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SPC Brent Melton
SPC Brent Melton
>1 y
LTC Jason Mackay I think the Crux of the issue is that they have uniforms meant specifically for their job and they're not being allowed to use it for that purpose. If you look at it from a command standpoint, that is money saved for the unit via not having to DX uniforms and issue new ones. Do I really think a SGM will have soldiers not wear stained uniforms, of course not, but there will be extra expenses that could, as you pointed out, go to more pertinent uniform parts. Another route could be to issue mechanic coveralls that are expected to have stains and would last longer. I just see alot better ways to do what the OP wanted that would cause more minimal impacts.
(0)
Reply
(0)
LTC Jason Mackay
LTC Jason Mackay
>1 y
Feeab11c
SPC Brent Melton - I was not talking about DXing duty uniforms (mostly because it hasn't happened since pre1994) . I was talking about issuing, wearing, and DXing coveralls. See photo. The OP was talking about doing maintenance in flight uniforms, using the same logic...I think we are in violent agreement here.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SPC Brent Melton
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close