Posted on Jan 15, 2016
Do Pathfinder wings have to be flush with the pocket on ASUs?
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I work as a Technician in the NG. I manage the DA photo lab in the J6 Visual Information office. Today while in the lab talking to the photographer an E-7 walked in for a photo. I have spent many hours in the photo lab and consider myself a DA Pam 670-1 expert. When I told this E-7 his Pathfinder wings were not flush below his pocket he said that "Active Pathfinders cant/tilt their wings". I searched for hours on traditions and looked in the DA Pam. His photo has already been uploaded but I'm asking for my sanity because I've been searching for hours now.
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DA Pam 670-1
Army Regulations
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Posted 9 y ago
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I consider myself an expert on this subject since I am the President of The National Pathfinder Association. The original torch worn on the sleeve by WWII a Pathfinders was canted to resemble flight or descent from the sky. When the larger cloth torch was designed Pathfinders in the 50s and 60s wore the cloth torch on the pocket of their duty uniforms canted in the traditional way. In the 60s it was still worn on the sleeve of the dress greens canted. In AR 672-5-1 (awards)dated May 1961
Doesn't specify if it should be canted but we know it was canted because it was still a cloth torch. When the badge came out in 1968 the regulation (AR 672-5-1 change 19 dated 20 June 1969) doesn't specify in writing if it should be straight or canted but the 9 photos clearly show it straight. 166.1 d. States; for purposes of centering the Pathfinder the center of mass of the entire badge should be considered not the vertical axis of the torch.
Having said all this, The NPA is a strong proponent of the torch being canted in the original style without regard to if you served in a Pathfinder unit or not.
current DA Pam 670-1 doesn't specify in writing if it should be straight or canted but the 2 photos show them straight.
Eric H.
Doesn't specify if it should be canted but we know it was canted because it was still a cloth torch. When the badge came out in 1968 the regulation (AR 672-5-1 change 19 dated 20 June 1969) doesn't specify in writing if it should be straight or canted but the 9 photos clearly show it straight. 166.1 d. States; for purposes of centering the Pathfinder the center of mass of the entire badge should be considered not the vertical axis of the torch.
Having said all this, The NPA is a strong proponent of the torch being canted in the original style without regard to if you served in a Pathfinder unit or not.
current DA Pam 670-1 doesn't specify in writing if it should be straight or canted but the 2 photos show them straight.
Eric H.
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SFC Christopher Wheadon
As a 21.5 year retired verteran, having served twice in the 101st, the "Old Guard", and several other unit honor guards I consider myself extremely proficient at reading/ interpreting regulations and enforcing adherence to such.
If f the AR cites specifically "vertical axis of the torch" that would prescribe the torch is to be worn vertical on its axis, not "canted" or tilted. That being said....
Unfortunately the folks who write 670-1 have repeatedly shown either ignorance of, or intentional departure from military traditions and history when it comes to badges, accesories, appurtences, etc. and their prescribed wear. It is a shame that we liar tradition that way, but it happens.
Nontheless; the AR is the AR, and should be followed both implicitly and explicitly. NCO's don't write policy, we enforce them, all of them, not just the ones we like or agree with.
If f the AR cites specifically "vertical axis of the torch" that would prescribe the torch is to be worn vertical on its axis, not "canted" or tilted. That being said....
Unfortunately the folks who write 670-1 have repeatedly shown either ignorance of, or intentional departure from military traditions and history when it comes to badges, accesories, appurtences, etc. and their prescribed wear. It is a shame that we liar tradition that way, but it happens.
Nontheless; the AR is the AR, and should be followed both implicitly and explicitly. NCO's don't write policy, we enforce them, all of them, not just the ones we like or agree with.
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SFC(P) (Join to see)
National Pathfinder Association
A chartered non profit association of US Army, Navy, USMC, Air Force personnel who are Pathfinderqualified or served in a Pathfinder unit. All welcome.
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MSgt (Join to see)
Do you know if and how the pathfinder patch was placed on the m42 uniform in WWII?
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1SG (Join to see)
SGM (Join to see) I guess I should tell you I passed and now have a torch of my own.
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They can tilt them if they want.. But if you want to get promoted maybe make you uniform look more professional, we tilted ours as well, and even folded corners back when seeing them on BDU's/DCU's I would tell my NCO's "go for what you know"..... But it's a selection process and you photo says A LOT about you. Just food for thought.
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I'm not sure what you/he mean by tilt the "wings." I know I wear mine with the torch as close to straight up and down as I can. The pathfinder badge is hard to wear because it is not symmetrical. But I can pretty much guarantee that if he has to caveat it with "active pathfinders" do something, he is probably wrong.
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PFC Phillip Lord
Nothing here for you to work with but some how it looks correct tilted/canted and strange straight up and down.
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MAJ Milan George
As he says though, saying “Active Pathfinders...” is the issue. There are only a few units with strictly Pathfinder missions, yet most infantry, recon and a lot of support BNs have Pathfinder slots and DO Pathfinder missions. In that sense, they’re all “Active”. This arguement sounds a lot like the Cav hat arguement so there’s that too...
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LTC (Join to see)
Unfortunately the last two pathfinder companies, F/5-101 and F/2-82, were just shut down about a year ago.
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