Posted on Apr 27, 2016
SFC Drill Sergeant Leader
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Posted in these groups: P542 APFTAr Army RegulationsChecklist icon 2 Standards
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MSG Intelligence Senior Sergeant/Chief Intelligence Sergeant
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Active Army and AGR Soldiers are required to take 2 RECORD APFTs per year. There is a minimum requirement for 4 months in between them. Reserve Soldiers are required to take only one, but most commanders have a requirement for them to do it twice. Diagnostic APFTs are a commander's tool to gauge a unit's fitness. They can be administered as many times as they feel the need to.
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SGM Military Police
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>1 y
MSG (Join to see) - MSG, making 250 points a goal is appropriate, but it is not a standard. I am sure there is more to this story, however, simply making a soldier complete a monthly PT test because they did not make some made up goal seems unreasonable.
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MSG Intelligence Senior Sergeant/Chief Intelligence Sergeant
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I don't disagree. I am just commenting on what I have seen. I would certainly not advise a commander to do this, but sometimes they have their own ideas.
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SPC Military Intelligence Systems Maintainer/Integrator
SPC (Join to see)
8 y
How soon after a pt failure does regulation say another record can be given?
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SGT Cavalry Scout
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where in what AR would i find this?
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SGM Erik Marquez
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Edited >1 y ago
Put it on the training calendar or make it part of a unit SOP for physical fitness improvement program and you bet.

Wake up each morning and think...today? ya why not.. Sure that too.. though the first is a much more professional and organized way to see results.
The APFT as a standalone event is a terribly physical training event.....so doing that event as the days physical training is a waste of time.

Using a Diag APFT monthly as a measure of general fitness to determine if the SM should continue with remedial PT would be best done in a positive light ... I would (did) make it optional monthly .. the program had a Diag set for 90 days after entering the remedial PT program... If a SM wanted to opt out of the remedial program, they could request a APFT.

Correctly resourcing an APFT monthly is a huge waste of time unless there is a valid need.. Like say you are running an HHBN at teh DIV or CORPS level, and in order to cycle through all that leadership and supporters with a record APFT annually, you may need to due one each week for 3 months, or one a month for 6 months.

In theory the HHBN company commander is in charge and has the authority to stop all daily business and order a Company APFT . The reality is, life at the DIV or CORPS level does not stop for anything... Taskings, info requirements, reports due, investigations ordered from higher all still come pouring in every hour, of every day. And that takes the primary staff, the department chiefs,. the other leaders, and all of the supporting staff to some degree.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
>1 y
SFC (Join to see) So tell us Sergeant,,,, are you a closet MFT? Or preaching and leading?...LOL
I attended MFT school in 1989 at Benning, then assisted in teaching the class in 1991 at Fort Ord, was planning on an assignment at MFT school, but the Army had other ideas.
My Point you ask?????lol.. We use to say, after graduation,,,, don't take all that new hard won knowledge and leave it in the closet... Work, make your chain of command understand what you have to offer... help them understand you can make thier life easier by providing a PT program that will breeze though the BN, BDE training cander scrub with no rebukes from higher, AND if support by ALL leaders in the unit... make for a much more fit unit.
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SFC Senior Operations Nco &Amp; Travel Executive To The Senior Enlisted Advisor, Cngb
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
SGM Erik Marquez - Well SGM, I'm the MFT for the State of Florida and work directly with the State Surgon Generals office. I have designed many BN's fitness programs and have a great track record. I am also active in sending out a monthly Health & Fitness Newsletter to the entire State which include all MACOM's. Also, I'm not only a MFT but I have an Associates in Sports Medicine & Fitness Technology, a Bachelors in Exercise Science, I'm a CSCS registered with the National Strength and Conditioning Association as well as a POSE certification to name a few. Thank you though, I believe I have a magnificent track record.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
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SFC (Join to see) - I think you took that the wrong way.... I was praising, not criticising... That you mentioned you were an MFT and understood the APFT is not training, clearly indicated to me you were not a closet MFT.
I apologize if you took it otherwise.
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SFC Senior Operations Nco &Amp; Travel Executive To The Senior Enlisted Advisor, Cngb
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SGM Erik Marquez - I apologize SGM, I definitely voted it up. I totally agree with you and to say bring the expertise to the Commanders i definitely am trying to beyond my chain of command. We only can hope they are acceptable for the help. Thank you
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
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Technically, the commander can have as many diagnostic APFTs as he/she deems appropriate.
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SGM Debra Bradshaw
SGM Debra Bradshaw
>1 y
Am I wrong? I thought you could only give one diagnostic per month.
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SFC John Hill
SFC John Hill
>1 y
SGM Debra Bradshaw - FYI, AR 350-1 Training-Army Training and Leader Development; Appendix G–9. Physical readiness training Para m (2) Commanders may administer the APFT as often as they wish; however, they must specify beforehand when the results are for record.
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Do the chain of command have the authority to make a soldier take an APFT every month if their score is not 250 and above?
MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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I will answer this with a statement. My BN CDRs command is all Soldiers scoring less than 70% in each event will take a diagnostic every month until they reach 70%.
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SFC John Hill
SFC John Hill
>1 y
See AR 350-1 Training-Army Training and Leader Development; Appendix G–9. Physical readiness training Para d (2) Commanders may establish unit APFT and PRT mission related goals which exceed Army minimum standards. Personnel who meet Army minimum standards, but fail to meet unit goals, may not be punished or disciplined. However, they may be required to participate in special conditioning programs which focus on overcoming a weakness
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LTC Paul Labrador
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Command can make a soldier take a diagnostic PT test as many times as they want.
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MSgt Explosive Ordnance Disposal
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That is why it is termed...Chain of Command.
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SPC John Van Valkenburgh
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They can do a diagnostic APFT pretty much whenever they want. As often as they want.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
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Unless the organization is taking personnel time from these troops I do not understand the issue. Fitness is the foundation for a the stamina required in a combat environment. Not sure that would be my approach but it sounds effective. What about units that do a monthly 25 mile ruck, or a weekly ten miler and on!
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CPT Engineer Officer
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Edited >1 y ago
Nothing saying they can't, however so long as you pass the records they can't hold a failed diagnostic against you in terms of separations process or admin flags. However, they do have the authority to set unit specific PT standards and quite a bit of pain and suffering can be induced over it. You are bound by UCMJ and refusal of a lawful order, like taking an APFT, would be grounds for an article 15 action at a minimum which could include an admin reduction in rank.

Easy answer would be just to get a 250 to make your life easier, reflect better on your NCOER, and benefit your career overall. Getting a 250 isn't all that hard, and being that soldiers start to bottleneck in the E-5-E-6 promotion time frame because slots have to open it'll help ensure you are promoted on time.

Edit: However, if they do try something squirrely like slapping an admin flag on your despite you meeting height and weight standards and having a passing record APFT, that is a breach of regulations and you'd have a leg to stand on to fight that.
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SFC Drill Sergeant Leader
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
Yes 250 is easy. It's just my soldiers in my unit that hate to see get demotivated from this all of a sudden change
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CPT Engineer Officer
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Understandable, is this a line unit or support unit? Regardless the command team holds the same power. Sudden changes can be hard, the best thing you can do for them as their leader though is never pass the buck. Joes love complaining, and if they can see their leadership is opposed to a change then they'll feel validated and it builds a toxic climate where it's the troops vs. the commander. It's easier to fix their attitudes though than it is to win a fight against the first sergeant about PT standards. From my experience, best thing you can do is own the change, lead, and inspire.
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SFC Mpd Ncoic
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If they say so....the reg requires it twice a year. Just remember..... You can add to a reg but cant take away. Personally i dont think its a good idea but hey....who am I?
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SFC Drill Sergeant Leader
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>1 y
Roger you can add but can't take away. For them to do a 250 standard defeats the purpose of the 180 army standard.
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SFC John Hill
SFC John Hill
>1 y
SFC (Join to see) - Commanders may establish unit APFT and PRT mission related goals which exceed Army minimum standards. Personnel who meet Army minimum standards, but fail to meet unit goals, may not be punished or disciplined. However, they may be required to participate in special conditioning programs which focus on overcoming a weakness.
(AR 350-1 Training-Army Training and Leader Development; Appendix G–9. Physical readiness training)
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