Posted on Aug 22, 2020
Do we have to purchase a guidon to gift to the outgoing commander?
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When framing a guidon to gift to the outgoing commander, have people purchased a guidon to be framed or have you been able to frame the company guidon and get a new one through S4 channels?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 4
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Take a pic to a sewing/surplus store/embroidery shop. get it done single side to save cash. The orginal is a property book item and belongs to the unit- is replaced only when worn/damaged.
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Historically, because the guidon is a property book item, the outgoing Commander buys a NEW official guidon to place on the staff, and the guidon that was flown during his or her tenure gets framed.
So basically the cost of the guidon is eaten by the CDR, and the cost of the framing, engraving, coins, whatever is on the gift giver.
So basically the cost of the guidon is eaten by the CDR, and the cost of the framing, engraving, coins, whatever is on the gift giver.
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The right way to do it is to purchase a replica guidon, full size or smaller suitable for framing (for example small guidons of all companies for the out-going BC).
Gifting the actual unit guidon that was issued through the system is misappropriation of govt property, even if you are paying cash for the replacement.
Gifting the actual unit guidon that was issued through the system is misappropriation of govt property, even if you are paying cash for the replacement.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
So long as it's replaced, it's fine. We ran it through the PBO, IG and legal and got the thumbs up.
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SGM Jeff Mccloud
SFC Michael Hasbun - That's cool.
I mean AR 840-10 ch 6-3 c. states "Guidons are accountable property and their retention by individuals is prohibited," but if legal gave you a thumbs up...
I mean AR 840-10 ch 6-3 c. states "Guidons are accountable property and their retention by individuals is prohibited," but if legal gave you a thumbs up...
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SGM Jeff Mccloud hence why the individual replaces it. Once another is purchased there is a surplus. The unit is responsible to maintain the quantity of Guidons
on the property book.
Now is someone took one without replacing it, causing a shortage, that's clearly an issue.
on the property book.
Now is someone took one without replacing it, causing a shortage, that's clearly an issue.
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SGM Jeff Mccloud
SFC Michael Hasbun - I get your point, it's just that the reg doesn't say, "prohibited unless replaced", it just says "prohibited".
And that is why most IGs and JAGs state "just buy a replica for the gift" when asked.
edit to add:
Do most commanders want the real guidon that flew at the unit? Sure, who wouldn't.
The issue is:
1. The reg says "no".
2. That means you can't use the system to order the gift or replacement
3. The commercial replacement might not be made up to standard.
4. All it takes is for one SM with a personal. petty axe to grind to take this to IG, and IG upon reading 840-10 will have to initiate that investigation, and that out-going CO gets flagged (no pun intended) until the investigation is complete. And then the original gets hung back at the unit and the replica goes to the outgoing commander and everyone is more pissed off than they would have been.
And that founded investigation goes on that outgoing CO's record.
And that is why most IGs and JAGs state "just buy a replica for the gift" when asked.
edit to add:
Do most commanders want the real guidon that flew at the unit? Sure, who wouldn't.
The issue is:
1. The reg says "no".
2. That means you can't use the system to order the gift or replacement
3. The commercial replacement might not be made up to standard.
4. All it takes is for one SM with a personal. petty axe to grind to take this to IG, and IG upon reading 840-10 will have to initiate that investigation, and that out-going CO gets flagged (no pun intended) until the investigation is complete. And then the original gets hung back at the unit and the replica goes to the outgoing commander and everyone is more pissed off than they would have been.
And that founded investigation goes on that outgoing CO's record.
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Keep in mind, don't communicate that it is a requirement. Don't even approach Jr soldiers for donations. It is all voluntary and you need to organize it on your own time. This is not an Army expense to gift an out going commander anything other than possibly an award.
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