Posted on Jan 25, 2014
SFC Team Sergeant
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With all our experience as a military why is our current Basic Combat Training still not reflecting the needs of our military.  We have added some simple things like convoy operations, and IED recognition but the rifle ranges are basically the same as when i joined in 2002.  I am currently assigned to a Battalion that is changing the way we train a little at a time and the results are amazing.  simple changes to how we train the Soldiers in the classroom, and how we handle their learning have made some significant changes in the the trains knowledge and performance.  Unfortunately we are the only ones doing this and its a shame more units are not following our example.
Posted in these groups: Bmts Basic TrainingTrain2 Training
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Responses: 17
2LT Infantry Officer
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An extra two or three weeks of training with crew served weapons and learning to patrol would be great, especially if the atmosphere for those two weeks was learning focused and more relaxed for those two weeks. We took new guys fresh from basic and jump school and held them at Battalion for a few weeks in a training platoon to get them prepared because they were so green coming to us - we called it "GRIP". They'd learn more about Airborne ops, patrolling, crew served weapons and radios, get driver's training, and get all their certifications so that they could just fall right in when they were sent to a company. They also weren't so skittish after. Guys straight out of basic always seemed like they were scared of their shadows. I thought it was a great in-unit program.
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SSG Infantryman
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I mostly believe the power needs to be given back to the instructors, and taken from the trainees. They're entirely too protected from necessary disciplinary measures. They're soft, mentally week, and entitled. Their arrogance is undeserved.
That, and finding a method of instruction that caters to the new generation. They're immersed and surrounded by technology. That's the majority of these kids' interaction with the world. Implement something. I understand it's ultimately the unit's responsibility to expound upon their knowledge, but they just aren't getting it when they show up. They're not retaining anything. Something needs to be adjusted.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
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As I have observed and gained feedback from both cadre and Drill Sergeants, I will say that some training will be changed next cycle. I can't do much with this one since it is locked already by previous CDR. The BRM has changed here from what I was told and some of the missions during FTX will be different next cycle too. The team wants the missions to not be redundant and offer better suited missions on what 19Ds will need to know. Yes its only basic training but, give them an idea on their MOS duties. This is still in the works and will only get better here soon.
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TSgt Hh 60 G Maintainer
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I went to Fort Benning for BCT (2007).  We had several felony-waiver guys in my platoon, so we got smoked on a daily basis because someone screwed up somehow.  Profiles?  If you were on profile for too long, or too many times, you went away.  The Drill Sergeant told us on the first day that he was going to break us and those who survived would graduate.  He stayed true to his word- 11 of the original recruits weren't on the graduation field at the end.


As for training, we received some of the best Infantry-centric training there is.  When we were in the field and had down-time, the engineer tape came out and we did room-clearing drills.  We learned bayonet combat.  We did the bayonet assault course.  We did the grenade assault course.  Was it all necessary?  I think so.  If I am ever called on to kick in a door and clear a room, I am confident that I could function adequately.  The one bit of training I think was unnecessary or incorrect was the convoy live-fire.  No one sits in the back of a soft-sided truck and fires like that.  On both of my deployments, the standing order was that nothing short of an MRAP was leaving the wire.  So take out all that training and get to the ranges more often.  4 days out of 9 weeks is NOT enough to develop and hone marksmanship skills.


Overall, we should be looking at the USMC training that they do at Parris Island and San Diego for their boot camps.  I have yet to hear from Marines that their training was lacking or did not prepare them for their jobs.  Their training theories make sense.  All Marines are Riflemen first.  All their Officers go through The Basic School, so all Officers know what the Infantryman down in the mud is going through.  Their capstone to Boot Camp, the Crucible, is a 72 hour constant action field exercise.  At the end of the Crucible, every Marine really values their Eagle, Globe, & Anchor insignia.  Can we in the Army say that we value our "U.S." and branch insignia equally at the end of Basic Training?  I honestly doubt it.  So, the Army should look to the USMC for effective and relevant basic training requirements.

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SSG Cannon Crew Member
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Having been a DS recently, Basic is wayyyy to easy. PVT's tell the COC that a DS is picking on them (AKA making corrections) and the COC tells the DS to leave the PVT alone. What I think needs to be taken out is that stupid ARM training. Why are we wasting time and money on ARM, when a PVT can barely qualify with their weapon. Take out ARM, leave that for their unit, and extend BRM.
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LCpl Mark Lefler
LCpl Mark Lefler
12 y
One of the things i wonder and I'm not qualified to think one way or another since i never had a chance to make it to the sandbox, but would it help recruits to have better situational awareness training at basic?
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SSG Cannon Crew Member
SSG (Join to see)
12 y
what do you mean by situational awareness training?

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1SG Michael Blount
1SG Michael Blount
>1 y
SSG - did the privates ever pull out a Hurt Feelings Report or the Hut Feeling First Aid kit on you?
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CPT All Source Intelligence
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Can you say more about the changes your unit made?
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SFC Team Sergeant
SFC (Join to see)
12 y
we have some of the hardest training on post here at jackson.  now we have the ability to fire multiple targets earlier in BRM to get the trainees ready for the qual.  if they struggle we have the option to go back to the POI event for the day to be within the TSP.  
our ARM training is more of a build up to bury team live fire as is BRM 10.  we lead the soldiers to believe 10 is a gate to ARM, then ARM is a gate to BTLF.  We give them goals to reach instead of constantly beat them down.  the results are surprising.  We also give some of the learning responsibility to them.  Many people would say they are to stupid to teach themselves but we've found the opposite.  The ones who struggle weed themselves out.  the cream raises to the top.  they take ownership of their learning.  Its called a flip classroom.  I give them homework, like for instance a video or reading material on movement formations.  they read and work on it themselves at night and the next day i jump right into them moving as a member of a fire team.  I now only have to answer a few questions or make minor corrections.  it works on so many tasks its amazing.  
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CPL Jason Rehling
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My son just returned from basic at Ft Leonardwood after a summer for basic (He is a split op national guard soldier currently)

The thing that I found concerning about his experience was the fact that 20-25% of his class failed either BRM or the APFT (which I guess isn't even a full APFT anymore)

coupled with the large degree of freedom the trainees were allowed (they got privileges in basic that my company in 1992 didn't get until well into AIT)

Now I understand things change, and we had soldiers that we had to whip into shape or coach at BRM to bring them up to standards, but I our Drill's would have gone thermonuclear on us..... (and we would have earned it).

I am just at a loss for words, I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation. At least I hope. Anyone have any input on this?
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MSG Combat Engineering Senior Sergeant
MSG (Join to see)
12 y

Yes sir.  The Army is well, not so much the Army anymore when you talk about BCT.  I always tell my privates there is BCT and then there is the real Army.  The real Army PT Test is 60 points per event and not 50.  In the real Army 350-6 does NOT exists. And if you don't know what 350-6 is I would encourage you to look it up.  You will find most of your answers there. 


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SSG Cannon Crew Member
SSG (Join to see)
12 y
1, it was Leonardwood, thats most of the problem. The APFT in BCT is still the same as regular, except PVTs only have to pass with 50%, not 60%. BRM is the same as always but its hard to shoot a real weapon when all these kids know is how to hold a 360 controller and since their parents never yelled at most of them (sarcasm) well, you see where Im going... and as SSG Morgan stated, most of the answers (and problems) are in the 350-6.
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SSG(P) Platoon Sergeant
SSG(P) (Join to see)
12 y
Coming from the same unit that SSG Morgan is in as a Drill Sergeant myself I could not agree more with everything he has said.
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