Posted on Sep 6, 2015
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Given that the UK, French and Australian armies have all adopted bull pup battle rifles and we have increasingly become involved in CQC in cities, do you think that its agility in close quarters yet the accuracy of full barrel length is the rifle design of the future?
Future
Weapons
Rifles
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 18
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Keep the same M4 design we have, put on an HK416 upper, make it piston driven an upgrade the trigger! No need for a new gun, just need to make the current on better.
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Capt Richard I P.
Buggy mobile app. The above comment was posted under LTC (Join to see)'s meme about Marines holding umbrellas, but it appears to have posted here as well.
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As long as it shoots something bigger than .223 we will be good. 6.8 SPC, .300 Blackout, or 7.62 x 39?
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I wanna see a show of hands...who here has fired a bull pup design? I have...they are garbage. Want to know what most of the countries in NATO have for their SOF units units? They have an M4 or M4 variant. If they don't, like Slovenia, they wish wish they had one.
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Cpl Dennis F.
Once again...,given your experience, how about some details, type, drawbacks. I have competed with a Bull pup shotgun and found it to be very fast acquiring multiple steel targets. I have also shot a few odd configurations to include bull pups but will reserve comment until this has run a bit.
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PFC (Join to see)
I've shot the FN 2000, SA80, FAMAS, and Stery AUG....in all instances, the bull pups were slower to reload when compared to an M4A1. The length they saved on the overall design of these bull pups did not offer any real advantage over an M4A1 with a 14.5 in barrel.
Oh, the SOF units in France, England, and Australia do not use a bull pup rifle.
Oh, the SOF units in France, England, and Australia do not use a bull pup rifle.
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Cpl Dennis F.
PFC (Join to see) Now that's the kind of input I was looking for! Thank you. It's useful to know your dislike of something, but even more educational to know why.
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I believe the M4 design is good now. Tweet it some and we'll be good ie: better rd etc.
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It would be strange if we followed the lead of the French military Cpl Dennis F.. Short stock weapons which can be swung and pivoted it tight situations that pack a punch can be useful in urban combat. However I think a folding stock design for a full barreled combat weapon makes more sense because it could be used in close combat in urban areas and thick undergrowth and also sued in more open combat. Good range is crucial, easy zeroing is also useful in field situations.
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Cpl Dennis F.
LTC Stephen F. Bull pup weapons ARE full barreled rifles. The relocation of mag well and FCG with telescoping bolts allows for the short overall length without compromising barrel length and long distance accuracy. The only thing that suffers is the shorter site radius. Granted the French do have a tendency to excelling in military failure, But the Austrian AUG is a very innovative weapon system. with right or left hand configuration and a variety of quick change barrels.
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LTC Stephen F.
Cpl Dennis F. - Thanks for the clarification that bull pup are full barreled weapons. In WWII and in Vietnam short stock or folding stock worked well - MP 40, Thompson sub machine gun, British Sten Gun, M73 grenade launcher, etc.
The French conventional forces have a mixed record after WWI but the French Foreign Legion has done pretty well over the years.
In your post you said Australian which impressed me as they did very well in the Vietnam War. As far as I know the Austrians have not had much recent combat experience - unless it was in the breakup of the former Yugoslavia and the conflicts that followed.
The French conventional forces have a mixed record after WWI but the French Foreign Legion has done pretty well over the years.
In your post you said Australian which impressed me as they did very well in the Vietnam War. As far as I know the Austrians have not had much recent combat experience - unless it was in the breakup of the former Yugoslavia and the conflicts that followed.
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LTC Stephen F.
Cpl Dennis F. - I was thinking about room to room, apartment and row-house type combat where there is very little room to maneuver, grenades, and shotguns can be useful, etc. In those situations relying on full-barreled weapons can lead to problems.
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