Posted on Feb 21, 2015
Do you call failing for what it is in your unit? Is this happening?
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In my experience I have seen occur over and over again. What boggles my mind is how failure is met with a sense of inclusion. I know we don't want to disrespect any soldiers but it would be a greater disservice to accept failure without an retribution. I can't recall how many times I have heard "but he is a good field soldier." That is great but if he is disrespectful to NCOs in garrison he is not a good soldier. It doesn't matter if he can hump a M240 with 1,000 rounds all by himself for 12 miles. He will damage the command climate in a unit. If you let him know he is failing in this area he may correct himself and become the well rounded soldier he should be. If he doesn't comply he should be dealt with accordingly.
In addition to this I have heard people say "There is no such thing as a stupid question" but I have seen otherwise. If it is a legitimate question I don't have an issue with it. But if you were to ask me "How do you think the Earth rotates around the Sun? The Earth is in the center and sun is the one that rotates around us!" I wouldn't even waste me time. It is foolish to even try to explain. There are also inflammatory comments out there that are stupid. I am not contesting that they shouldn't be said. After all they have freedom of speech and have the right to be stupid but when you have people, the Westboro Baptist Church, out there I don't care to try to understand why you are saying this. It is worthless and offers no intellectual benefit to me or to anyone really.
I really don't understand why we try to avoid not calling it what it is. It is not a popular stance to tell someone that they failed or make no sense when they feel so vehemently about it. If you fail you should take you licks and move on. We have to be firm with our conviction. If I failed my comrades I would feel horrible. That is what is supposed to happen. If you can't tell them the truth because you are afraid of hurting their feelings you are in the wrong line of work. I want someone to tell me I failed. I don't want a hug. If one accepts failure and doesn't really see it as an issue I would really question their effort. After all the Soldier's Creed states "I will never accept defeat. I will never quit." But just trying once and walking away with "well that was good enough" is exactly not that.
How do you deal with this in your unit or have you seen this adversely affect your unit and command climate. Have you see a soldier get a pass for something that you have see another get an Article 15 elsewhere?
In addition to this I have heard people say "There is no such thing as a stupid question" but I have seen otherwise. If it is a legitimate question I don't have an issue with it. But if you were to ask me "How do you think the Earth rotates around the Sun? The Earth is in the center and sun is the one that rotates around us!" I wouldn't even waste me time. It is foolish to even try to explain. There are also inflammatory comments out there that are stupid. I am not contesting that they shouldn't be said. After all they have freedom of speech and have the right to be stupid but when you have people, the Westboro Baptist Church, out there I don't care to try to understand why you are saying this. It is worthless and offers no intellectual benefit to me or to anyone really.
I really don't understand why we try to avoid not calling it what it is. It is not a popular stance to tell someone that they failed or make no sense when they feel so vehemently about it. If you fail you should take you licks and move on. We have to be firm with our conviction. If I failed my comrades I would feel horrible. That is what is supposed to happen. If you can't tell them the truth because you are afraid of hurting their feelings you are in the wrong line of work. I want someone to tell me I failed. I don't want a hug. If one accepts failure and doesn't really see it as an issue I would really question their effort. After all the Soldier's Creed states "I will never accept defeat. I will never quit." But just trying once and walking away with "well that was good enough" is exactly not that.
How do you deal with this in your unit or have you seen this adversely affect your unit and command climate. Have you see a soldier get a pass for something that you have see another get an Article 15 elsewhere?
Posted in these groups: 
Failure
Command Climate
Failure Command Climate
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 12
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Failure is an option and in training it is good. You learn more from failing something than always passing. I am not saying that I want to fail or I want Soldiers that want to fail. I only want to win, plain and simple. Sometimes it doesn't work out that way, and with those times you find out what you need to win.
There is no such thing as a stupid question, not everyone was raised the same way with the same educational background. I know they should know what is right and wrong, or that the sun is the center of the universe, but sometimes you just have to understand that some people learn at a different pace.
I think you are right that we need to tell everyone the truth, and be brutally honest about, when necessary. This goes into keeping the right people in the service. I am all for retention numbers, but I would rather fail to meet a mission than re-enlist an idiot that I don't want with me in combat.
There is no such thing as a stupid question, not everyone was raised the same way with the same educational background. I know they should know what is right and wrong, or that the sun is the center of the universe, but sometimes you just have to understand that some people learn at a different pace.
I think you are right that we need to tell everyone the truth, and be brutally honest about, when necessary. This goes into keeping the right people in the service. I am all for retention numbers, but I would rather fail to meet a mission than re-enlist an idiot that I don't want with me in combat.
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LTC (Join to see)
I am not advocating that anyone should give less than 100%. If a soldier gives their full effort, then I am going to be fine with the failure this time. Though I view it as my job and the job of every leader out there to push that and every other soldier to get them closer each time until they don't fail.
That to me is empathy, and all good leaders should be able to empathize with their soldiers to get them out of the hole that they got themselves in. Not get in the hole and commiserate with them. Make them work to get out of the hole on their own.
That to me is empathy, and all good leaders should be able to empathize with their soldiers to get them out of the hole that they got themselves in. Not get in the hole and commiserate with them. Make them work to get out of the hole on their own.
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LTC (Join to see)
"If you don’t empower subordinates in training, the risk you postpone now will be added with all other postponed risk and it will come due in combat." -General David Perkins
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LCpl Barney Gaumer
I was dumb as a box of rocks as a young Marine. I am now a very well educated IT professional (self taught by the grace of God) Let me just say that if you spend some time with the "slow" warriors you will see the payoff. The Major is correct. Training is key. Failure while training to learn and perfect so you don't fail during Ops would be the best possible scenario. But the old saying holds true, a team is only as fast as the slowest member.
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Failure is always an option... And sometimes it's the best learning tool available. Some people learn SOLELY when they fall flat on their face.
http://timkastelle.org/blog/2013/12/failure-always-option/
http://timkastelle.org/blog/2013/12/failure-always-option/
We all want to avoid big, expensive failures. The best way to do this is to design many small, cheap failures - experiments!
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Lt Col (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) , there are tasks I absolutely do not want people to fail at...landing the airplane, defending the outpost, etc. But too many people in the military then try and stretch that logic. "If I can't trust you to get the margins on the MFR right the first time, how can I trust you to land the airplane?" is a ridiculous line of questioning.
I've made plenty of bad decisions as a leader. Thankfully, I've had commanders who had my back, defended me from high level consequences, then "mentored" me at the appropriate level. That allowed me to develop my own leadership style, built from experiences of what did and what did not work. If all we do is apply a rote book of rules, no need for any leaders below the JCS.
I've made plenty of bad decisions as a leader. Thankfully, I've had commanders who had my back, defended me from high level consequences, then "mentored" me at the appropriate level. That allowed me to develop my own leadership style, built from experiences of what did and what did not work. If all we do is apply a rote book of rules, no need for any leaders below the JCS.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
We fail in training so we don't fail in war... Failure is how we learn. It's what teaches us what works, and what's the province of the good idea fairy. Even the military must learn from its failures. We started the CALL program for a reason.
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CPT (Join to see)
Lt Col (Join to see) SFC Michael Hasbun I am not saying that we must be perfect. There is going to be failure. What I am talking about is the complacency that comes with it. I am training with another country's military and it is nightmare. What is occurring is they fail. Which is not an issue at all. What is the issue is that they don't see an issue with it and say that it will be different in combat. It don't really see an issue and magically think it will resolve itself.
If I were to take out an infantry platoon and try to cross a Linear Danger Area (Road) and they failed doing it and just accepted that they can't do it we are going to have an issue. Failure is a result and not an option. If you go into thinking it is OK to failure then you are a failure. If you try your best and then fail, that is fine. You did what you could. You should try again and continue so you can be successful.
We we make a plan as a leader I don't plan on failing. I plan if things don't go the way I want them too. If was given a mission and I told my commander that he should make a course of action that I can't do it I don't think he would appreciate that.
My question is if you fail in training don't you do it over again? I haven't seen a unit fail at doing a weapons qual or a live fire and just accept that and leave. It goes against everything we do as a military. When you do any battle focused training you can be either a T, P, or U. I hope that a unit wouldn't accept a U and deploy. Someone should call it what it is and not let them deploy. This situation happened in the 82nd an a Battalion failed at JRTC. Someone had to make the call to stop them from deploying and send another unit.
In you initial planning failure should never be an option. It is not that it can't happen. It could. But if you do fail it should never be from you leadership letting it fail for lack of interest in the mission. If that does happen someone should be called out on it.
There are situations that really don't warrant a good old flogging such as like being late to formation but then they shouldn't just be overlooked.
If I were to take out an infantry platoon and try to cross a Linear Danger Area (Road) and they failed doing it and just accepted that they can't do it we are going to have an issue. Failure is a result and not an option. If you go into thinking it is OK to failure then you are a failure. If you try your best and then fail, that is fine. You did what you could. You should try again and continue so you can be successful.
We we make a plan as a leader I don't plan on failing. I plan if things don't go the way I want them too. If was given a mission and I told my commander that he should make a course of action that I can't do it I don't think he would appreciate that.
My question is if you fail in training don't you do it over again? I haven't seen a unit fail at doing a weapons qual or a live fire and just accept that and leave. It goes against everything we do as a military. When you do any battle focused training you can be either a T, P, or U. I hope that a unit wouldn't accept a U and deploy. Someone should call it what it is and not let them deploy. This situation happened in the 82nd an a Battalion failed at JRTC. Someone had to make the call to stop them from deploying and send another unit.
In you initial planning failure should never be an option. It is not that it can't happen. It could. But if you do fail it should never be from you leadership letting it fail for lack of interest in the mission. If that does happen someone should be called out on it.
There are situations that really don't warrant a good old flogging such as like being late to formation but then they shouldn't just be overlooked.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
Complacency? If the history of our nation teaches us anything, it's that success breeds complacency. We went from being among the best at everything to strictly mediocre at everything because we rested on our laurels after WWII. We became convinced of our superiority and failed to realize that we had to keep EARNING that title. Had we failed more often, learned more lessons, kept striving and innovating; perhaps we wouldn’t have rested on our laurels so quickly...
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I think that every officer and NCO should address another Soldier's failure with respect and professionalism. However, it must be addressed. I've not seen too much complacency in my unit or units. Deficiencies have usually been brought up to the Soldier and failure to comply has been annotated on evaluations.
I think that I understand your intent, but I agree with LTC (Join to see)'s sentiment: do we want to go to a zero-defect mentality? That creates a very toxic command climate, one where people back stab rather than work together. One where everyone is afraid that the smallest mistake could be a career killer. It leads to careerists par excellence.
I think that I understand your intent, but I agree with LTC (Join to see)'s sentiment: do we want to go to a zero-defect mentality? That creates a very toxic command climate, one where people back stab rather than work together. One where everyone is afraid that the smallest mistake could be a career killer. It leads to careerists par excellence.
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