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Fairly easy answer...yes, it is a legitimate religion. Religion can be understood as faith (belief) through practice (cult); Islam is one of the three Hebraic religions (modern Judaism, Christianity, and Islam). Not only is it a legitimate religion, but it is one of only three (the other two Hebraic religions) that has a truly monotheistic and transcendent view of a god (Modern Zoroastrianism being something of a cult of Islam rather than a separate religion). All other religions can be placed in the category "Continuity"—those that believe less of transcendent deities and more continuous with the world of nature and the world of men (I am using this term how John Oswald uses it).
Although modern Judaism, Islam, and Christianity stand in direct opposition with each other and are not mutually accepting of the other two, they have the same origins.
Although modern Judaism, Islam, and Christianity stand in direct opposition with each other and are not mutually accepting of the other two, they have the same origins.
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COL Ted Mc
SGT Justin Singleton You say "From that perspectives,I would argue that the radical group is closer to the original views." and I would agree that the version of Islam proposed by ISIS is MUCH more suited to an uneducated, subsistence, nomadic, tribal, culture without any knowledge of the science and technology developed in the past 1,400 years than is the "mainstream" version of Islam practised by most Muslims in the "developed" world.
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SGT Justin Singleton
yes, Arabs have advanced our way of thinking greatly! I fell in love with the Arab culture in Iraq, and a couple of years later did some work in Jordan. I have, since, though moved into working in the Mediterranean.
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SFC Mark Merino
So many historical sites were decimated before we posted guards. What a shame for the human race.
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SGT Justin Singleton
Yes, it is sad. As an archaeologists, my heart bleeds for the lost history. ... I may, actually, have an opportunity to excavate in southern Iraq coming up soon, though! I'm excited about that.
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I don't consider leave unprotected under the Bill of Rights the Islamic Religion, if we do that we will fail our Constitution
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GySgt William Hardy
As I have said over and over, I agree, but I also reserve the right to see the division in Islam and acknowledge the mainstream beliefs and their protection under the Constitution while at the same time not recognizing radical Islam and their holy war against the world. We have the word cult to differentiate beliefs systems into categories. My personal belief is that radical Islam is a cult and not a religion. It is a male religion that gives their members sexual awards for killing the infidel and gives them total domination over women even to the point of being allowed to kill female members with immunity. To me that is not a religion. Those views are not held by main stream Islam.
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Sgt. Ben Keen, I'm rather like-minded. We have strayed so far off the mark that now peaceful protest under the 1st Amendment is described as terrorism, can you believe that? And divergent thought and speech is called hate speech, not inflammatory speech intended to directly and personally offend and provoke violence, which should be called hate speech. I believe political correctness is at the root of some of this instead of basic common sense. For me, being politically correct means contacting my representatives at all levels when the need arises and properly filling out the ballot on election day.
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First, DEFINE what "legitimate" ACTUALLY means and describe clearly WHAT metric is being used to define it. A religion usually involves a deity or deities to believe in. It can also involve belief in a system of thought. Capitalism and communism have by many individuals been raised to the level of religion, evidenced by the level of regard given those systems. Political ideology and party affiliation have also been used as such. Adolf Hitler raised Nazism to a religion, replacing Christ on the cross in churches with a portrait of himself and the Bible with a copy of Mein Kampf in its place, baptizing babies before the swastika, loftily muttering "nazibabble" over that poor child. Even science is raised to that level by so many as evidenced by the stridency of its adherents and the hostility aimed toward those of a more spiritual mind. I personally believe that this universe did not "pop into existence all by itself" and everything did not merely "fall right into place all by itself". I believe it was CAUSED by THE original thought and word. The law of gravity and the laws of motion are often spoken of. There HAD to be a LAWGIVER. Again, define "legitimate".
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GySgt William Hardy
If we could have a definition it might help, but because of the way countries like the USA views religious freedom it encompasses many different views....hence part of our problem. Basically, as long as the regular practice of a belief does not cause harm to a person, or does not violate one of our laws, it is left alone by our government. On a personal note, I would rather allow polygamy among Mormons than some of the practices of so called religions like that of Jim Jones or the Branch Dividians.
Each of us have different ideas. To me the radical views of Islam is a cult and not a religion. When you offer living members certain privileges to men such as being able to marry a child and having sexual relations with the child, to allow a day each week to have sex with another man (how many of you were told about men holding hands and to be careful how you answer them because you may be consenting to a "date". It was a part of our pre-deployment training. To be able to kill your fellow man in the name of religion and to gain instant delivery to heaven for dying for Allah. Being told you will get 70 Virgins in paradise and several more things.... for me they are definate indicators of a cult and not a religion; however, under the current interpretation of our laws, such beliefs are protected under Freedom of Religion. In so far as Radical Islam is concerned, I totally disagree. For mainstream Moderate Islam, I can accept it. As an American citizen, I must accept both by law, but I do not have to accept both on a personal level. It appears that many feel the same way. That is one reason I try to use the adjectives of Radical and Moderate or Mainstream in front of Islam. There was a time when it was very simple. Shiites were the bad guys and Sunnis were the good guys. That is no longer true with radical groups in both main branches. It only makes things harder for the Western World.
Each of us have different ideas. To me the radical views of Islam is a cult and not a religion. When you offer living members certain privileges to men such as being able to marry a child and having sexual relations with the child, to allow a day each week to have sex with another man (how many of you were told about men holding hands and to be careful how you answer them because you may be consenting to a "date". It was a part of our pre-deployment training. To be able to kill your fellow man in the name of religion and to gain instant delivery to heaven for dying for Allah. Being told you will get 70 Virgins in paradise and several more things.... for me they are definate indicators of a cult and not a religion; however, under the current interpretation of our laws, such beliefs are protected under Freedom of Religion. In so far as Radical Islam is concerned, I totally disagree. For mainstream Moderate Islam, I can accept it. As an American citizen, I must accept both by law, but I do not have to accept both on a personal level. It appears that many feel the same way. That is one reason I try to use the adjectives of Radical and Moderate or Mainstream in front of Islam. There was a time when it was very simple. Shiites were the bad guys and Sunnis were the good guys. That is no longer true with radical groups in both main branches. It only makes things harder for the Western World.
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I look at this question and find it antagonistic and see there is so much going on with the answers. When I see many of the answers it only proves that most people are not mature enough or informed enough to form a truly intelligent response based on anything more than tribal wisdom or media fed jumble. Is it remotely possible that radical Islam spawned from over 1,000 years of them being persecuted by Christians? Or, How have Christians treated Jews? Then there have been cases where each group has chased some other group based on their religious beliefs.
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Hmm, I see nothing but a baiting question here. Although I don't follow or believe the teachings of Islam I can no more deny it as a religion as I can any other religion in the world. Do I think they're right? No, but it isn't mine to judge or condemn them either.
Not all Muslims are extremists.
Not all Muslims are extremists.
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GySgt William Hardy, refer to the attached topic. This boils down to an idea straight out of Orwell's Animal Farm, that "all [religions] are equal, but some are more equal than others." To claim that Islam is not a legitimate religion, or not as legitimate as other religions, you corrupt the entire concept of religious freedom and the protections therein.
Religious bigotry on RallyPoint | RallyPoint
I have seen a worrying trend here on RallyPoint lately where religious bigotry has been on the rise. Stereotypes, blanket statements on religions as a whole, and in general a lot of comments that straddle the fence of hate speech. I understand that many people hold religious beliefs close to their hearts, but I find this to be unacceptable. Should we as a community chastise offending users on an individual basis, or should RP set up and...
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GySgt William Hardy
The problem lies in the fact that there is not a single definition that is used as a legal standard and that cults are also considered religions here and in many European countries. I also find that many here see the difference between radical groups that have twisted the original beliefs while others are trying to keep everything in a neat package. With that said, yes, in today's world some religions are more equal than other simply because too many ideas have crept in that are not really religions. I see the mainstream Muslim religion as legitimate and the cult version of radical Islam is not. You are trying to make out that Islam is Islam. It is not. We have many different branches of the Christian religion. During the Protestant Reformation the protesters we shunned and a great many of them ended up in the American Colonies. It took a long time before they were left alone to worship as they believed. The difference with the problem with Islam is that those groups engaged in peaceful practice of their beliefs. Radical Islam would rather take a knife and cut off your head. There are a number of Protestant denominations that believe that if you are not a member of their denomination and have been saved, you are lost. They do not go around bombing the Boston Marathon or the Olympics. Radical Islam does.
In your eyes you see your post as an answer to everyone's responses. In my eyes I agree, but only if you see my point that there are two Muslims beliefs..Radical Islam is not a religion that I recognize on personal level but I do recognize it as a dangerous cult just as I recognize many Christian beliefs as a cult and not a religion.
Defining exactly what qualifies as a religion is something that I think the Supreme Court will avoid for a long time. If we are going to accept all beliefs as a religion, then why do we need to have a definition for the word cult?
In your eyes you see your post as an answer to everyone's responses. In my eyes I agree, but only if you see my point that there are two Muslims beliefs..Radical Islam is not a religion that I recognize on personal level but I do recognize it as a dangerous cult just as I recognize many Christian beliefs as a cult and not a religion.
Defining exactly what qualifies as a religion is something that I think the Supreme Court will avoid for a long time. If we are going to accept all beliefs as a religion, then why do we need to have a definition for the word cult?
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SGT (Join to see)
GySgt William Hardy You use the word "cult" as a pejorative and don't seem to understand what it fully defines as. Please take a look at the attached link and then return to read the rest of this as I cannot think of any religion that didn't start as a cult.
You're right, I do see my post as the answer to everyones responses, because my answer like all of theirs is in response to your topic and the central theme of whether Islam is legitimate or not. It's my opinion, otherwise I wouldn't have stated it, so of course i stand by it. Islam is Islam, you can't cherrypick the adherents and ideas you like and those you don't, and I certainly wouldn't want any federal authority to do so. Once you give the government the power to state that a group is not a religion because they practice ideas that the government doesn't like then you've opened the door to religious persecution, which is exactly what the First Amendment was created to forbid.
We already have it in place that religious protections only go so far. A religion can't perform human sacrifices or any other act that is illegal to a common citizen with VERY few exceptions namely of laws relating to finances. If a muslim bombs a building our constitution isn't going to protect him/her even if they state it's an act demanded by their faith. In a way your concerns are about your "cult" of Islam are already addressed. Acts of violence by radical Islam is already forbidden in our country.
A final point, our protestant colonial forefathers weren't as peaceful as you seem to believe. Just as one example they took a pretty dim view to "witchcraft" and Salem, Massachusetts has a lot of history I think you should read up on.
You're right, I do see my post as the answer to everyones responses, because my answer like all of theirs is in response to your topic and the central theme of whether Islam is legitimate or not. It's my opinion, otherwise I wouldn't have stated it, so of course i stand by it. Islam is Islam, you can't cherrypick the adherents and ideas you like and those you don't, and I certainly wouldn't want any federal authority to do so. Once you give the government the power to state that a group is not a religion because they practice ideas that the government doesn't like then you've opened the door to religious persecution, which is exactly what the First Amendment was created to forbid.
We already have it in place that religious protections only go so far. A religion can't perform human sacrifices or any other act that is illegal to a common citizen with VERY few exceptions namely of laws relating to finances. If a muslim bombs a building our constitution isn't going to protect him/her even if they state it's an act demanded by their faith. In a way your concerns are about your "cult" of Islam are already addressed. Acts of violence by radical Islam is already forbidden in our country.
A final point, our protestant colonial forefathers weren't as peaceful as you seem to believe. Just as one example they took a pretty dim view to "witchcraft" and Salem, Massachusetts has a lot of history I think you should read up on.
cult | a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that...
noun | \ˈkəlt\ | See the full definition...
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From the day I first posed this question, I have been talking with a Muslim who just recently left active duty. His father is a Muslim and his mother is Catholic. We have been talking about issues in the Islamic faith that have been altered by those of the radical wing of Islam. For example, everyone has heard the stories about how a man will receive 72 virgins if they die in their cause, which by the way is not true, but at any rate, I found a video of an Islamic cleric who up the ante and is telling his followers that if they die in the act of Jihad and in the name of Allah they will get 100 virgins in heaven. Not only that, but each virgin comes with a hand-maiden, each of them has a hand-maiden. That means 100 X 100 X 100 so that each man who dies taking out the infidels will end up with one million virgins in heaven.
The point is that in our discussions I have been told that there are many problems within the Islamic faith. One is that the vast majority of Muslims are illiterate and rely on what the clerics say and take it as fact. This allows the radical wing of Islam to manipulate the population with lies, false or misguided teachings about the Koran.
There was once a simple division...Shiites and Sunnis. Sunnis were once considered the more peaceful side of Islam. Shiites were considered the more right-wing version. That is no longer true. There are radical, terrorist groups in both of the major wings of Islam. You can no longer tell the good guys from the bad simply by the label they wear.
As I talked with my friend, I told him that if the mainstream Muslims kept silent and did not openly oppose the radicals they would eventually be considered a part of the problem and all of Islam would be considered the enemy. He asked what he could do? I asked him if he could speak with his cleric and have his Mosque make a statement. He came back and said that the Mosque was not going to make a public statement for the same reasons many others will not....fear of retaliation from the radicals in this country. Then he made a statement that shook me up...He said he wished he had become a Catholic so he didn't have to be a Muslim in this day and time. No one should have to feel that way about their faith.
It's been a few weeks since I last talked to him. I don't know what is going on right now.
As far as Islam is concerned it is a very simple thing to answer and a difficult one to comply with in today's world. Islam is a faith protected under the constitution; however, there are branches of Islam that do not fit the definition of a religion. As some of the people here have pointed out, a religion like Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, etc, are basically a religion of peace. All religions have something within their beliefs that allows for protection during wars or other similar circumstances. Radical Islam is all about the taking over of the world through violence. As such, it makes it very hard for many in the world, not just America, to accept those groups. At the same time, they tarnish the reputation of the moderate Islams who are not seeking war with the world.
This is going to be a tough area for everyone for a long time.
The newest thought, and it was also one of Allen West's posts, should non-American Islamic immigrants be deported until this War on Terror is over? Should we be so liberal about our immigration policies and extend our Constitutional Rights to people who are potential terrorists or should we wait until they commit a terrorist act and kill American citizens before we make our move? Tough call isn't it?
The point is that in our discussions I have been told that there are many problems within the Islamic faith. One is that the vast majority of Muslims are illiterate and rely on what the clerics say and take it as fact. This allows the radical wing of Islam to manipulate the population with lies, false or misguided teachings about the Koran.
There was once a simple division...Shiites and Sunnis. Sunnis were once considered the more peaceful side of Islam. Shiites were considered the more right-wing version. That is no longer true. There are radical, terrorist groups in both of the major wings of Islam. You can no longer tell the good guys from the bad simply by the label they wear.
As I talked with my friend, I told him that if the mainstream Muslims kept silent and did not openly oppose the radicals they would eventually be considered a part of the problem and all of Islam would be considered the enemy. He asked what he could do? I asked him if he could speak with his cleric and have his Mosque make a statement. He came back and said that the Mosque was not going to make a public statement for the same reasons many others will not....fear of retaliation from the radicals in this country. Then he made a statement that shook me up...He said he wished he had become a Catholic so he didn't have to be a Muslim in this day and time. No one should have to feel that way about their faith.
It's been a few weeks since I last talked to him. I don't know what is going on right now.
As far as Islam is concerned it is a very simple thing to answer and a difficult one to comply with in today's world. Islam is a faith protected under the constitution; however, there are branches of Islam that do not fit the definition of a religion. As some of the people here have pointed out, a religion like Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, etc, are basically a religion of peace. All religions have something within their beliefs that allows for protection during wars or other similar circumstances. Radical Islam is all about the taking over of the world through violence. As such, it makes it very hard for many in the world, not just America, to accept those groups. At the same time, they tarnish the reputation of the moderate Islams who are not seeking war with the world.
This is going to be a tough area for everyone for a long time.
The newest thought, and it was also one of Allen West's posts, should non-American Islamic immigrants be deported until this War on Terror is over? Should we be so liberal about our immigration policies and extend our Constitutional Rights to people who are potential terrorists or should we wait until they commit a terrorist act and kill American citizens before we make our move? Tough call isn't it?
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