Posted on Feb 25, 2016
Do you think all branches of the service need to get paid more? Why or why not?
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Posted 10 y ago
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We are all in civil service, so bear that in mind when we talk salaries. But in general, I think the officer corps compensation (pay + bennies) is commensurate with what their salaries would be in the civilian world. Note, that starts becoming untrue at the very senior levels (O-6 and above) where they are acting in CEO capacities but not making similar civilian CEO pay. I think our NCO corps is not paid commensurate with their responsibilities, particularly at senior NCO levels, and should be paid more.
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(Join to see) Absolutely! Do we get certain benefits that others do not? Sure, we do. But are we compensated well enough for what we do? Nope, not the very least. I put this into comparison. A civilian intelligence analyst in most areas will get paid a lot more than what I do. I have been in the Army for 17 1/2 years and roughly make approximately $65,000/year based on all my entitlements. However, a civilian in the same area is making more than $80,000/year. Doesn't seem quite right for us making that choice. However, that being said, I didn't join for the money - I joined to keep a family tradition alive in my family and my deepest feelings in regards to patriotism. I love what I do and I wouldn't change it for the world.. But yes, bottom line, I do believe that we should get a pay increase to match similar to the private/civilian sector. Just my two cents.
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While I agree with Sgt (Join to see), I will say this;
Having a job you love is a great thing, and it should be so for everyone. But I can tell you, in the private sector, I would make much better pay than I am now, doing basically the same job. Pile onto that: I also have dependants to support. I moved them in on post because for once, it actually was cheaper at the time. Even with that, it is still difficult to keep my head above water some months. Things happen. Things come up. And at my level, I don't get paid nearly enough to support myself and my family, AND save up to handle incidentals. So I often have to jump through hoops and go around my elbow to get to my own fourth point of contact in order to keep trucking along.
Having a job you love is a great thing, and it should be so for everyone. But I can tell you, in the private sector, I would make much better pay than I am now, doing basically the same job. Pile onto that: I also have dependants to support. I moved them in on post because for once, it actually was cheaper at the time. Even with that, it is still difficult to keep my head above water some months. Things happen. Things come up. And at my level, I don't get paid nearly enough to support myself and my family, AND save up to handle incidentals. So I often have to jump through hoops and go around my elbow to get to my own fourth point of contact in order to keep trucking along.
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If you ask the junior ENL who has to get food stamps to feed the kids, that's one thing. If you ask the OFF side, then it gets harder to make a case in the marketplace. Don't forget to chip in all the tax free benefits and how much more you'd have to make to pay if it wasn't tax free. TSP/401 matching you don't find on any street corner.
For ENL being an E-7/9 without a degree tends to limit them to Civil Service technician series which many times caps out at GS-11 so considering ENL benefits, that's a pay cut. For officers coming off O-4 and going GS-12, it's closer to a push. Where officers can run into GS issues like everyone else is the bottleneck starts at GS-13 (first line supervisor) big time and continues to pucker up from there.
When looking at commercial sector with low paying service jobs with limited benefits, many of that community would freak out over how cushy the junior ENL has it. With the economy being in the tank for the past 8 years, many would give a lot to have what the MILs have. If you have a technical building skill like the Seabees and are journeyman level, you can do very well, especially if you're willing to go it alone in the boonies.
"Should" is a problem word as is "fair". You don't want to look at GS to MIL rank equivalents because that means cuts everywhere. But that wasn't set up for pay comparison anyways. Pay in GS/WD or whatever is based on skills, span of control, and other things that the position requires. Having prior service doesn't mean an entitlement bump. Merit systems don't work that way. About the only thing MIL does for you is a potential bump up on the list for first hire. After that, pretty much nothing.
For ENL being an E-7/9 without a degree tends to limit them to Civil Service technician series which many times caps out at GS-11 so considering ENL benefits, that's a pay cut. For officers coming off O-4 and going GS-12, it's closer to a push. Where officers can run into GS issues like everyone else is the bottleneck starts at GS-13 (first line supervisor) big time and continues to pucker up from there.
When looking at commercial sector with low paying service jobs with limited benefits, many of that community would freak out over how cushy the junior ENL has it. With the economy being in the tank for the past 8 years, many would give a lot to have what the MILs have. If you have a technical building skill like the Seabees and are journeyman level, you can do very well, especially if you're willing to go it alone in the boonies.
"Should" is a problem word as is "fair". You don't want to look at GS to MIL rank equivalents because that means cuts everywhere. But that wasn't set up for pay comparison anyways. Pay in GS/WD or whatever is based on skills, span of control, and other things that the position requires. Having prior service doesn't mean an entitlement bump. Merit systems don't work that way. About the only thing MIL does for you is a potential bump up on the list for first hire. After that, pretty much nothing.
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MAJ (Join to see)
As a Captain with 14 years in service I net WAY more than as a GS-13. about 30% more, with better healthcare (cost wise) and better retirement benefits.
I find many Soldiers both officer and enlisted that are delusional as to what civilian employment is really like. If you really want to make good money you need to take a more risky job such as starting your own company or working in the high stress corporate world which is far more challenging that what I saw as an Active Duty Sergeant and Captain. There are pro's and cons to each side, in the end I'm glad I have the flexibility the civilian side offers, at a lower pay rate. In terms of Enlisted Pay NCO's get taken to the cleaners while they are in service, but once you retire it's a gravy train. So If you are an E5~ish I would recommend doing 20 years, getting out, or commissioning. If you get out give the reserves a try.
I find many Soldiers both officer and enlisted that are delusional as to what civilian employment is really like. If you really want to make good money you need to take a more risky job such as starting your own company or working in the high stress corporate world which is far more challenging that what I saw as an Active Duty Sergeant and Captain. There are pro's and cons to each side, in the end I'm glad I have the flexibility the civilian side offers, at a lower pay rate. In terms of Enlisted Pay NCO's get taken to the cleaners while they are in service, but once you retire it's a gravy train. So If you are an E5~ish I would recommend doing 20 years, getting out, or commissioning. If you get out give the reserves a try.
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What about warrants? I think a CW4/CW5 makes pretty good money. Those on active duty. What I do not agree with is the changes in the retirement system. Plus if active duty gets 3.1 so should the retirees.
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I think we're paid plenty. If you consider that in order to be in my position very little to no education is required. What civilian job will allow you to make ~100K/year without education/training? What people need to understand is that we all volunteered for this, and therefore knew the pay scale before we joined (hopefully). If it was acceptable when you joined, why is it not now? Soldiers (and civilians) today seem to think they are entitled to things which they aren't. If you want to make more money, go to school or start a successful business. Just serving in the military should not entitle you to a more comfortable life over that of a comparably trained/educated civilian.
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SSG Ryan Moore
CSM (Join to see) I disagree with this statement as I know of former Soldiers of mine who have gotten out of the Army and have become working as contractors and are making double of what I am making as a senior SSG and they have no college background. I know of people who have had no college experience and start out as a junior analyst and still making more than I am. Yes, I did volunteer and I definitely have not stayed in because of the money but more because of patriotism and family tradition but still we are definitely getting paid less than some of our civilians who have little to none experience and little to none college. Just my thoughts!!
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CSM (Join to see)
Let's argue apples to apples. People who left the service and make more money are leaving with experience (and possibly education). This is not the same as initial entry or entry level.
While I'm sure there are exceptions, by and large the military makes more than a comparable civilian. Our entry requirements are very low, and if you add in the benefits our compensation package is very high. How many entry level workers (no college, no training, etc) find jobs making $34k (PFC less than 2 years TIS) plus fully covered health and dental insurance? Add in that the Army will pay for your college education while on active duty (not to mention post-service benefits like the GI Bill, retirement, etc.) and you're faced with the fact that, as soldiers, our compensation package is very competitive and generally superior to that of our civilian counterparts.
This reminds me of the argument for paying fast food workers $15 an hour.
While I'm sure there are exceptions, by and large the military makes more than a comparable civilian. Our entry requirements are very low, and if you add in the benefits our compensation package is very high. How many entry level workers (no college, no training, etc) find jobs making $34k (PFC less than 2 years TIS) plus fully covered health and dental insurance? Add in that the Army will pay for your college education while on active duty (not to mention post-service benefits like the GI Bill, retirement, etc.) and you're faced with the fact that, as soldiers, our compensation package is very competitive and generally superior to that of our civilian counterparts.
This reminds me of the argument for paying fast food workers $15 an hour.
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SSG Ryan Moore
CSM (Join to see) My point is that although not everyone is -- there is certain percentage that can fit into this criteria. But you do make some valid points.
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In 1968, I started out at 102 dollars a month. I knew that the pay was not great, but I joined to serve my country. Having more money is great, but doing a job that you love, is an important factor to consider.
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