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Do you think the way evaluation ranking are fair in the navy? Ive heard people say this person deserves a EP over others just because he is currently eligible for the next pay grade. I know alot more goes into it, it just seems like if your not part of the GOBC then your at a disadvantage no matter what you do.
Navy
Promotions
Evaluations
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 17
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As an Army officer who has served a lot in tri-service settings, I have HUGE issues with the Navy eval system. It encourages sailors to basically screw over each other because it's a competition. I've found it to be completely opposite and disruptive of overall mission objectives. In fact, mission can be compromised because you have junior officers trying to back stab each other to ensure they get top ranking. In the Army, we say "one team, one fight". From what I've seen in the Navy, it's "defeat your peers and you win".
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As most others have said, the eval system is bullshit. My first veal as an E-6 was written out to make me look like an all-star, yet I was a P. The fact that guys were getting EP's based only on the fact the were LPO's (and doing less than a shit show of a job at it).
Also, they way that senior leadership tries to justify it leads a lot of sailors to thinking that their work ethic is worthless and the more ass-kissing they do, the more the will succeed. I would get yelled at for writing my guys evals up and being honest if they where a POS. Every time this happened I was told I couldn't do that cause the command didn't want to see those kinds of things.
Ok, that is the end of my rant.
Also, they way that senior leadership tries to justify it leads a lot of sailors to thinking that their work ethic is worthless and the more ass-kissing they do, the more the will succeed. I would get yelled at for writing my guys evals up and being honest if they where a POS. Every time this happened I was told I couldn't do that cause the command didn't want to see those kinds of things.
Ok, that is the end of my rant.
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PO1 (Join to see)
I've had a few "reporting seniors" who would order me to take certain things out of Sailors' evals because they were afraid the member would submit a statement. effing BS.
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Although I agree with the consensus that no evaluation system is perfect (per Deming, they shouldn't be scheduled or formalized, but documented when someone does a really good job--if all evals were like LOAs, they might work better).
It's a zero-sum game, where there are some winners and some losers by percentile. I know they were trying to address perceived inequities--i.e., almost everyone was a 4.0 Sailor under the previous system--but that's what happens when bureaucrats get their hands on statistical measures--not realizing that statistics are a measure of probability--and not actuality nor certainty. The system can--and often is--used for reprisals against Sailors who do what's morally right, but politically undesirable, and the system is too easily 'gamed' by people who see it for what it is. Also, using PT scores and breakpoints for who can be promoted and who can't is simply idiotic--when you consider that the fitness standards were created by some bureaucrat at BUPERS, and really have nothing to do with fitness. Standards of health and suitability to serve should always be squarely under the cognizance of BUMED, and BUPERS should have no say in them. The right would be for each command to be given their percentage of promotions, and let all promotions be 'field promotions' but supervisors who are actually witness to a Sailors' performance.
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Yes, the system is flawed. Always has been and always will be so long as humans are writing evals. It's exactly the same way in civilian life, so you might as well learn to deal with it now.<br><br>Here are some suggestions to help you get the evals you deserve:<br> 1. Document everything you do, and why it was significant.<br> 2. Use numbers to demonstrate how well you did something. If you did something that saved the command money (materials, man-hours, etc.), say how much it saved.<br> 3. Learn to (truly) collaborate and communicate effectively with others. You may view this as "being a politician" but it's how things get done - in and out of the military. Working well with others is a skill that is highly valued in any organization worth being a member of.<br><br>Embrace reality. What "is" and what "should be" are rarely the same. The system is what it is, and all your frustration with it isn't going to change it. Make the system work for you.<br>
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PO2 Jared Thomas
I was reading through all of the responses, and this is the only one i saw that really answered the question.
I do find that the system can work its magic on some people who deserve it, but turn that around and there are 20 more people that deserve good evals that get pushed down for that one.
I do find that the system can work its magic on some people who deserve it, but turn that around and there are 20 more people that deserve good evals that get pushed down for that one.
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Depends, if the UPPER CHAIN-OF-COMMAND is fair and NON-BIAS then the system will be fair. IF not, then "NO"! Also, with that said the commands with smaller numbers of people make it not easy! The system has flaws, this EP thing......If you were an EP last year and did nothing wrong to lose it.....then you get an AUTOMATIC PASS to another EP, regardless what your other co-workers do......"UNFAIR"! I'm NO LONGER active duty since 1998, but I remember in 1996 when the current eval system cam outI had a BIG PROBLEM with it.......I REALLY THINK TO THIS DAY IT COSTED ME FROM MAKING CHIEF! Nuff said.......
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LCDR Jeffery Dixon
No worse than civilian life. Always seemed more of a fashion show than a reward vehicle for those who become the experts and do the real work.
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PO1 Adam Saenz
Don't forget if your not in the good old boy club. Its still there no matter what system they try to use.
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PO1 Roy White
I am no longer Active since 1997 but from going up for chief in 1986 until I retired with no disciplinary actions great evaluations or capt mast, I couldn't make chief and that was passing the exam, being rated top E6 among the first class at my command and going before the board, well I see "UNFAIR" in there just a little bit.
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It's flawed, as I assume every other branch's eval system is flawed. The biggest gripe I have is that most command have the mind set that once a member gets an EP, he or she should never be bumped down unless they do something adverse. Even if a newer member hits the deckplate running and owns his or her programs, they may not get an EP due to quota restrictions. They try to save face by putting "only an MP due to quota restrictions" and that may help during a board, but it can still screw over the member when it comes to their PMA during an advancement exam. There are a ton of other reason the system is flawed, but it would take a 20 page point paper to outline them all.... sometimes you just gotta go with the flow.
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PO2 (Join to see)
I completely agree. I was told they couldn't justify me getting a EP only because this is my first E5 eval. But I did everything to get one. Its just not right. The entire process needs to be redone.
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PO2 William Ingram Jr
Not to mention the new FMS in September for those trying to make E6 will now rely more on eval than exam score which, by default, just made the GOBC more appealing to those that like to lose their dignity and self respect to suck.... just to get a better eval. I'm not one of them.
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They are not fair. I am not certain they were meant to be.
They are a "sell" effort on behalf of the evaluator. I always looked at treating each sailor equally, but when I graded them I made one decision. Is this person growing, learning, leading and setting the right example. If the answer was yes, I would write to eval to sell them to the next Commander.
They are a "sell" effort on behalf of the evaluator. I always looked at treating each sailor equally, but when I graded them I made one decision. Is this person growing, learning, leading and setting the right example. If the answer was yes, I would write to eval to sell them to the next Commander.
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No. I have seen too many times the people that work their tuchus' off, get lower scores than the people that sit in the shop as to be seen by the higher ups. Also, I think there is too much personal baggage in the way the higher ups evlauate
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The good ones I received, YES, definitely. Not so much the ones I received early on in my career.
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The evaluation system is fair when you have a good chain of command who can put personnel feelings aside. With that said that only happened at my last command with the last 2 years thete. Our system is flawed because there is the GOBC. The GOBC does not have to run how we think if there is a true leader they can set personal feelings aside and do what is right.
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