Posted on May 10, 2015
CW5 Roy Rucker Sr.
214K
1.12K
648
95
84
11
Edited 9 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 239
CDR Director, U.S. Navy Police
1
1
0
CW5 Roy Rucker Sr., I see the words "Ultimate Disrespect" under the photo you posted. Am I missing something? Is someone in the crowd disrespecting the POTUS, or are you suggesting he is doing something in the photo to disrespect the service?

I'm just curious, as I see no correlation between the photo and the words.
(1)
Comment
(0)
CW5 Roy Rucker Sr.
CW5 Roy Rucker Sr.
9 y
I didn't add the words "Ultimate Disrespect" or the Photo. The RallyPoint Admins did that after the fact. My question was pertaining to blatant disrespect for the office of CINC and nothing political. It's funny to see how far off track this whole thing has gone.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CDR Director, U.S. Navy Police
CDR (Join to see)
9 y
CW5 Roy Rucker Sr., thanks for the clarification. It seems that all these threads get off topic at some point.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Sgt David Hutchinson
Sgt David Hutchinson
9 y
Here is one more just to solidify my point.... A Supreme Court case...

Certainly this belief is widespread, and actually, it’s not far from the truth. In 1974 the U.S. Supreme Court wrote, “While the members of the military are not excluded from the protection granted by the First Amendment, the different character of the military community and of the military mission requires a different application of those protections. The fundamental necessity for obedience, and the consequent necessity for imposition of discipline, may render permissible within the military that which would be constitutionally impermissible outside it” Parker v. Levy, 417 U.S. 733, 758 (1974). This quote from the Court sums up what is known as the Doctrine of Military Necessity or the military-deference doctrin
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CW5 Regimental Chief Warrant Officer
1
1
0
Edited 9 y ago
As long as it is disrespect and not just disagreement with the POTUS' policies, politics, affiliations, etc. We should never stifle discourse and debate, it is part of what separates us from the majority of this world we live on.

I do believe though that Article 88 only applies to commissioned officers for the express purpose of allowing the enlisted to say their piece without reprisal. It is the officer's responsibility to keep his troops in line by displaying a professional attitude that supports the command. If we prosecuted the enlisted ranks for every rant, rave, grumble or complaint, we wouldn't have anyone left to drive on with the mission.
(1)
Comment
(0)
SGT First Officer
SGT (Join to see)
9 y
Chief Westbrook,

I just posted a large article related to what you have said, and I wished I had caught this earlier. The fact of the matter is everyone is entitled to an opinion-if we restrict a soldier to be adaptive, smart, and flexible, we have now placed a giant weight around the ankles of this soldier to perform better and potentially torpedo their careers.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGM Senior Adviser, National Communications
1
1
0
In some fashion, yes. There must be a professional level of discipline and decorum where petty personal contempt is banished so that leaders can be impartial. Of course, American citizens must also be able to express opinions and disagree without disrespect (especially here in RP!). However, military people are twice the citizen: we have a higher duty to respect the office of Commander-in-Chief and live up to the oath we swore upon enlistment, reenlistment, commissioning. If not, we are merely mumbling words without honor. It's not easy to respect the position, not necessarily the politics or the person, but we must rise above ourselves to do so in such a way that is professional, not personal. And that same level of professional respect should be given to any other person, especially in the military. It's not easy being Green!
(1)
Comment
(0)
MSgt Security Business Analyst
MSgt (Join to see)
9 y
In Uniform, they should be held accountable for their actions and words.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Robert Wheeler
SFC Robert Wheeler
9 y
Again we get back to the issues of who get held accountable and who does not. It is not just the enlisted folks that disrespect the President in a very public way. When Generals do it they get to retire early. When enlisted do it, they get punishment. (Rolling Stone interviews anyone?)
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Rick Ash
1
1
0
I look back on my military days as the most exciting time of my life. And then, I always was respectful of our CiC. With the current one though, I have no respect at all for him.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Civil Affairs Specialist
1
1
0
Yes, they should be. While opinions are a constitutional right, the military governs them slightly different for its personnel, and for good reason. We voluntarily signed up knowing full well that the commander-in-chief is a temporary position and destined to have differing ways of doing things. We accepted that when we signed on the dotted line. We can have our views of the President, but under our own time and out of uniform. How great of a military would we look if we disrespect the top of the chain?
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt David Hutchinson
1
1
0
Yes, we gave up that right when we joined the military, if you want to have an opinion wait til you get out.
(1)
Comment
(0)
MSG Brad Sand
MSG Brad Sand
9 y
No, Sgt David Hutchinson we did not surrender our rights because one joins military. You are still a citizen of the United States but you do agree to certain additional responsibilities. The main problem with this whole thread is defining what is 'disrespect'? Disagreeing with a superior is not disrespectful, and to think one should not point out the errors of another is dangerous and foolish. The President is not the King. We are a Republic and 'We the People' are still the ultimate rulers...it would be nice if more people knew or remembered this.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Sgt David Hutchinson
Sgt David Hutchinson
9 y
Did you pay attention when you enlisted? There are a lot of things you can't do. Please take the time to read everything Can you march in a clan rally as a right of your freedom of expression? No..... You do give up some of your rights when you join the military. You do not have the right to speak down about the POTUS that a citizen might, you give up some your rights to assemble and some of your freedoms of speech. This may be just higher standards we are held to in the Marines but I highly doubt it......when you enlist some of your liberties are put on hold for a while. You can still vote etc, but there is a reason why they are allowed to tell you how to dress when you are in civies, where you can and can't go, how far away you can go etc. see below You do give up some rights There is a little note about showing contempt for public officials.

The primary guidance concerning political activity for military members is found in DoD Directive 1344.10 [Guidance for Military Personnel]. Per longstanding DoD policy, active duty personnel may not engage in partisan political activities and all military personnel should avoid the inference that their political activities imply or appear to imply DoD sponsorship, approval, or endorsement of a political candidate, campaign, or cause. Members on active duty may not campaign for a partisan candidate, engage in partisan fundraising activities, serve as an officer of a partisan club, or speak before a partisan gathering. Active duty members may, however, express their personal opinions on political candidates and issues, make monetary contributions to a political campaign or organization, and attend political events as a spectator when not in uniform.
As previously noted, however, active duty military members and further restricted civilian employees are prohibited from participating in partisan political activity. Therefore, while these employees may “follow” “friend” or “like” a political party or candidate running for partisan office, they may not post links to, “share” or “re-tweet” comments or tweets from the Facebook page or twitter account of a political party or candidate running for partisan office. Such activity is deemed to constitute participation in political activities. Social media guidance for military members [FAQs Political Activities and Members of the Armed Forces] and civilian employees [Social Media and the Hatch Act] offers advice on how to avoid violating the rules.
Service members must also be careful not to comment, post, or link to material that violates the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) or Service regulation. Examples include showing contempt for public officials, releasing sensitive information, or posting unprofessional material that is prejudicial to good order and discipline under the UCMJ.
For more information on the Hatch Act, DoD personnel should contact their local legal office and military members looking for guidance on DoD Directive 1344.10 should contact their local JAG office.
General guidance on the Hatch Act may be viewed at the U.S. Office of Special Counsel website at http://www.osc.gov.

3. BOTTOM LINE. While serving on active duty, certain political activities and types of
speech are prohibited. Military personnel must refrain from participating in any activity while in uniform or while wearing any official insignia that may be prejudicial to the performance of military/government duties or is likely to bring discredit upon the Armed Forces. In addition, some activities that could be viewed as associating the Armed Forces directly or indirectly with a partisan political cause or candidate, although not expressly prohibited, should be avoided.
4. DISCUSSION. Active duty military members are encouraged to get involved in political activities and fulfill their obligations as United States citizens. However, certain political activities that create a real or apparent conflict of interest with their Federal employment are expressly prohibited. Adherence to the rules regarding political activities is of paramount importance, especially during Presidential election years when political partisanship is at its peak. Rules concerning individual involvement in political activities vary depending on whether the individual is on active military duty or a Federal civilian employee.
a. Military personnel on full-time duty in the active military service of the United States, including full-time or annual training duty, or attendance while in the active military service at a service school are considered active duty and must adhere to strict guidelines concerning political activities.
b. A list of permitted and prohibited political activities for military members is attached. In addition, commissioned officers shall not use contemptuous words as prohibited by Article 88 of the UCMJ or participate in activities proscribed by DoD Directive 5200.2, DoD Personnel Security Program, 9 Apr 99.
c. Catch-all Provision. Activities not expressly prohibited may be contrary to the spirit and intent of DoD Directive 1344.10. Any activity that may be reasonably viewed as directly or indirectly associating the Department of the Defense or any component of the Department with a partisan political activity or is otherwise contrary to the spirit and intention of the Directive shall be avoided.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SPC David S.
1
1
0
As long as you are wearing the uniform or on duty, yes. Off duty and not in Uniform, I won't stop you. Should you foot in the first place, no. He's the CiC, he's your boss as a service member. Does not matter if you're active, reserve, guard or what. If you are a service member, don't disrespect the CiC, end of story.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Deputy Station Commander
1
1
0
After reading some of the responses I see that a lot of service members are letting emotions get the best of them. No matter what your views are of the POTUS or anyone else in the COC we should refrain from speaking negative towards them publicly. For one why would anyone want to be a part of something that you yourself speak so ugly about. Secondly you are who you are in and out of uniform. And always remember that you do retain your right to have freedom of speech. However always remember to end your distasteful remarks with "these are my views and opinions and are not in-line with the policies of any of the U.S. Armed services or the DOD civilians".

How would anyone feel if their own soldiers were talking bad about you to others. I know you and I would go to full lengths of counseling said soldier for disrespecting a NCO/O or WO or unbecoming of a service member so think about that for a minute.
(1)
Comment
(0)
MSG Brad Sand
MSG Brad Sand
9 y
SFC (Join to see)

I do not think "these are my views and opinions and are not in-line with the policies of any of the U.S. Armed services or the DOD civilians" are going to save you if you are truly make disrespectful comments but disagreeing with someone, or more importantly with their policy or actions, does not mean you are being disrespectful.

Do you consider these comments disrespectful? If you do, get over yourself :)

Additionally, respect is a two way street. We take an oath to defend the Constitution...not the President...so if one lies to the American people (the rulers of OUR Republic) or take actions that are against one's oath of office or against the Constitution, it is YOUR DUTY to state your disagreement...but still do it such away that is not disrespectful if possible.

These are my views and opinions and are not in-line with the policies of any of the U.S. Armed services or the DOD civilians...but should be. :)
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGT George Smead
1
1
0
He is the Commander in Chief. His position is a position of respect. You may not agree with his politics or policies, but you have sworn obey the orders of the President of the United States. If you raised your right hand and swore to God, then it is your duty to follow his orders. Disrespecting him is disrespecting your commander and that is punishable by the UCMJ. If you don't like that you can become a civilian
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Gabe Berdugo
1
1
0
I would agree, yes. Whether you like the president or not, he's still part of your chain of command.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close