Posted on Nov 16, 2015
Do you think someone who has never been in a combat has the right to call themselves a veteran?
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Let me apologize in advance to the people who find this question insulting... I'm just wondering what other people who served viewpoint is.
I personally went many years before I broke down and got "Desert Storm" Veteran tags, and the "Veteran" identifier on my driver's license... I'm still not entirely convinced that I deserve the 101st patch on my right sleeve, for the most part all I did was fix helicopter engines in the sand.
I have a great friend that served in the Air Force, and never left CONUS.
I have a relative that served on Aircraft carriers before Vietnam.
Both proudly stand up when "Veteran's" are asked to at public gatherings, but I always feel strange standing up.
Legal definition of "veteran" aside (someone who served at least six months and received an honorable discharge). I'm wondering more about how those of us that served feel about the term.
When a civilian hears "Veteran" I get the impression that they think we all stormed the beaches at Normandy, and for the most part I was really bored, played Spades and Tetris on my Gameboy during Desert Storm.
Should someone who was in the military during the Vietnam conflict (but never in theater) be allowed "Vietnam Veteran" license plates?
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4", TSgt Hunter Logan , CH (MAJ) William Beaver , COL Ted Mc
I personally went many years before I broke down and got "Desert Storm" Veteran tags, and the "Veteran" identifier on my driver's license... I'm still not entirely convinced that I deserve the 101st patch on my right sleeve, for the most part all I did was fix helicopter engines in the sand.
I have a great friend that served in the Air Force, and never left CONUS.
I have a relative that served on Aircraft carriers before Vietnam.
Both proudly stand up when "Veteran's" are asked to at public gatherings, but I always feel strange standing up.
Legal definition of "veteran" aside (someone who served at least six months and received an honorable discharge). I'm wondering more about how those of us that served feel about the term.
When a civilian hears "Veteran" I get the impression that they think we all stormed the beaches at Normandy, and for the most part I was really bored, played Spades and Tetris on my Gameboy during Desert Storm.
Should someone who was in the military during the Vietnam conflict (but never in theater) be allowed "Vietnam Veteran" license plates?
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4", TSgt Hunter Logan , CH (MAJ) William Beaver , COL Ted Mc
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Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 368
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Veterans are veterans. Are you going to tell people who served 20+ year careers during the "Cold War" where there wasn't a conflict to be deployed to that they're not veterans? Or did you just one day decide to puss off a bunch of veterans the day you posed this non question? Be proud of repairing helicopter engines in the sand because that was part of the bigger picture. That is a vital part, keeping combat aircraft fully mission capable. That would be like me saying that if you weren't airborne qualified, that you weren't a real soldier.
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Something to think about...
Not everyone was issued a rifle and ordered outside the wire to engage the enemy on his own turf. Many remained inside the wire, doing their jobs maintaining equipment, serving food, loading planes, etc....
Yet when the mortar falls inside the camp, did the people who were killed die any less honorably?
Did we all not take the same oath and write that blank check to pledge our lives in defense of our country and constitution?
We are all veterans.
Not everyone was issued a rifle and ordered outside the wire to engage the enemy on his own turf. Many remained inside the wire, doing their jobs maintaining equipment, serving food, loading planes, etc....
Yet when the mortar falls inside the camp, did the people who were killed die any less honorably?
Did we all not take the same oath and write that blank check to pledge our lives in defense of our country and constitution?
We are all veterans.
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Some who never mobilized are very self conscious about it. In some cases their jobs here in the states were deemed to be critical by the military and as a result they were not allowed to deploy. I think they have the same right to be called veteran as any other. The status veteran cannot be based on deployment alone because there are many reasons someone might not deploy, that doesn't mean they didn't serve their country.
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COL Sam Russell
Absolutely, she is a vet. Remember, there were soldiers that served entire careers retiring with over two decades of service who never deployed, 1973-2001. Of course they're vets.
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LTC (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) true story. I know someone who the service would not let them deploy as their civilian career was too important and they deployed in that role. The sad part is the service did not allow them to transfer to another service so they could continue to serve in uniform in a non-deployable unit so they had to get out of the service.
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For administration personnel in the Marine Corps, there were two different admins: those that deploy and those that do not. In school, the instructors randomly assigned numbers with some getting the number that deployed and others the number that did not deploy. I got the one that deployed and I ended up deploying twice. I think every person that I talked to that got the number that did not deploy wanted to deploy, but they couldn't because they were non-deployable by the MOS they got. These Marines had no control over their destiny whether they deployed are not, but they all wanted to deploy. If you raise your right hand, take the oath, and fulfill the obligation of your contract honorably then you should be considered a Veteran.
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Why would a person even bother so serve in anything other than a combat branch if he/she knew that they would be considered "second class" if they never got shot at? Is there career worth of work not worthy of veteran's status?
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SPC David Hannaman
I don't think anyone is considered "second class", but I do think there is a distinction between "Veteran", "Combat Veteran", "Combat wounded", "Bronze Star", and "Congressional Medal of Honor recipient".
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SPC David Hannaman - Spec; ANYONE who has served is a "veteran". Anyone who has served in combat is a "combat veteran".
The situation gets MUCH murkier when there are no "front lines" and anyone deployed to an area is a potential target. Someone whose entire rotation to Iraq was spent inside the confines of "The Green Zone" isn't - to my way of thinking - a "combat veteran"
I think that the division not be so much if the person was fired at, but whether they fired back (or could have fired back) - but even that's a bit loose.
The situation gets MUCH murkier when there are no "front lines" and anyone deployed to an area is a potential target. Someone whose entire rotation to Iraq was spent inside the confines of "The Green Zone" isn't - to my way of thinking - a "combat veteran"
I think that the division not be so much if the person was fired at, but whether they fired back (or could have fired back) - but even that's a bit loose.
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SPC David Hannaman
IMO the Navy guys have as much "skin in the game" as anyone when it comes to warfare, (remember the USS Cole) not to mention that the deck of a carrier is an inherently dangerous place.
Land based troops don't usually have to worry about getting their home shot out from underneath them.
Land based troops don't usually have to worry about getting their home shot out from underneath them.
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COL Ted Mc
SPC David Hannaman - Spec; I agree that "land based troops don't have to worry about their home being shot out from under them" but, as I said, I make no pretense for being able to define "combat veteran" in anything other than a "land based (and I'll kick in "air based") environment.
Mind you, there have been very few times in human history when any navy has had to deal with an attack involving tens of thousands of pieces of artillery which were mounted on steady bases and had accurate knowledge of the exact position of their targets. The "ground pounders" have.
You could look at naval combat as (essentially) a "duel" while both air and ground combat could be looked at as (essentially) a multi-day football game with hundreds of players on both sides, very few rules, and a playing field that changes from day to day.
Mind you, there have been very few times in human history when any navy has had to deal with an attack involving tens of thousands of pieces of artillery which were mounted on steady bases and had accurate knowledge of the exact position of their targets. The "ground pounders" have.
You could look at naval combat as (essentially) a "duel" while both air and ground combat could be looked at as (essentially) a multi-day football game with hundreds of players on both sides, very few rules, and a playing field that changes from day to day.
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SN Greg Wright
COL Ted Mc - Colonel, if you think Naval warfare, battles in the past, were 'duels', then I submit to you that you are not very familiar with Naval history. The reason the navy doesn't deal with thousands of pieces of artillery is because a single submarine can kill multiple targets. A single aircraft can kill a ship. Nobody needs any artillery to kill ships.
I take nothing away from ground forces and what you describe they go through. But to relegate Sailors to non-combat Veterans status does them great injustice. 4 of the 17 MOH's awarded since Iraq went to Sailors or Marines. Countless Seabees served in the sand box. Every time a ship enters the gulf they risk mines, etc etc.
I take nothing away from ground forces and what you describe they go through. But to relegate Sailors to non-combat Veterans status does them great injustice. 4 of the 17 MOH's awarded since Iraq went to Sailors or Marines. Countless Seabees served in the sand box. Every time a ship enters the gulf they risk mines, etc etc.
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COL Ted Mc
SN Greg Wright - Seaman; As I said, I make no pretencions to being able to define "combat veteran" in other than the "land environment".
The difference between a "battle" and a "duel" is NOT the probability of a fatal outcome - it is the length of time that it goes on. "Naval combat" is generally over with within hours, the army would consider that type of combat to be a skirmish (regardless of the numbers involved).
PS - My count has it as 4 Marines and one Navy. I also noticed that not one of those MoHs was for "naval combat" as all the relevant actions took place on land.
The difference between a "battle" and a "duel" is NOT the probability of a fatal outcome - it is the length of time that it goes on. "Naval combat" is generally over with within hours, the army would consider that type of combat to be a skirmish (regardless of the numbers involved).
PS - My count has it as 4 Marines and one Navy. I also noticed that not one of those MoHs was for "naval combat" as all the relevant actions took place on land.
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yes if you served in the time even if you stayed home in the national guard or reserve units i believe it goes by dates not if you went over to the zone or not i could be wrong
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No if you served in combat you ARE A COMBAT VETERAN if you did not serve in combat you ARE A VETERAN that’s it no two ways about it.
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Yes, I didn't see actual combat, however I did spend over 4 years of my life underwater onboard 2 SSBN subs. I didn't see anyone shooting at us, but that was a good thing in my book. The war that I would have been in the heat with would be the war that ends us all, and we are all still here so obviously we (my fellow submariners and I serving on the SSBNs) didn't get into a shooting war!
I didn't see any of the shooters in the line that led to the subs, I am claustrophobic to the point I can't fly commercial anymore, I can't go into a crowded bar without pushing for the exit door quickly, I can't have an apartment around here that is a basement variety - no windows. All because of events that occurred on one of the subs.
So am I a veteran, damn straight I am - and anyone who questions that should first walk a day in the life of a submariner, just to try and see how you like going into vessel designed to go down into the water!
I also thank all the veterans who did go into battle on the ground, in the air, and on the seas as we all should every single day. I do see too many times the people who look on the veterans with total disdain, let them experience a week or two in the service of our great country!
BTW - I have a question for people everywhere - when did our great nation turn into a "not great country" because I must have either been 300' down (or further) or maybe I was asleep (I don't recall sleeping longer than a few hours, but hey who knows..) and I have never seen our country GREAT!
I pulls my chain when I hear people say our great nation isn't or wasn't just because someone else was the CIC!
I didn't see any of the shooters in the line that led to the subs, I am claustrophobic to the point I can't fly commercial anymore, I can't go into a crowded bar without pushing for the exit door quickly, I can't have an apartment around here that is a basement variety - no windows. All because of events that occurred on one of the subs.
So am I a veteran, damn straight I am - and anyone who questions that should first walk a day in the life of a submariner, just to try and see how you like going into vessel designed to go down into the water!
I also thank all the veterans who did go into battle on the ground, in the air, and on the seas as we all should every single day. I do see too many times the people who look on the veterans with total disdain, let them experience a week or two in the service of our great country!
BTW - I have a question for people everywhere - when did our great nation turn into a "not great country" because I must have either been 300' down (or further) or maybe I was asleep (I don't recall sleeping longer than a few hours, but hey who knows..) and I have never seen our country GREAT!
I pulls my chain when I hear people say our great nation isn't or wasn't just because someone else was the CIC!
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