Posted on Oct 21, 2013
Do you think we should discontinue the rank of CPL or discontinue the rank of SPC?
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Do you thing we should discontinue the rank of CPL or discontinue the rank of SPC, or should we keep it the same. Yes I understand it is used for an incentive for high speed SPCs, but if they go from PFC to CPL they will already know that more is expected of them from the start. What do you think about getting rid of the sham shield.
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Not only should the Army keep both ranks, it should also bring back the Spec 5-9 ranks as well. No everyone is meant to lead. A lot of problems come about when the Army tries to make people who have no desire lead anyway. Let the technicians progress and let the leaders lead. Utilize the force according to its strengths.
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SPC Patricia K. (Williams) Elliott
I so agree!! I was a SPC with no desire to "lead the troops" persee, just wanted to be the best I could be in my chosen MOS!
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SSG Dave Rogers
But I don't think that they should bring back SPC 5-9, that was great in a time when they were losing a lot of soldiers and needed some to stay in without the leadership, but to me, if you get to the point of an E-5 and you are not ready for it, you should either get your act together or move on.
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LTC (Join to see)
my question has always been: how is going from SPC to CPL a "promotion"? More work, more responsibility, higher standards but you still get paid the same. Where's the benefit for the soldier?
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I think SPC should be the next step after PFC. Once the SPC has some time under his/her belt, and once s/he has gone to the board and been recommended for promotion, then be lateralled to CPL. This will allow the CPL to begin acting like an NCO while learning HOW to be a NCO.As it is now, SPCs are junior enlisted one day, get promoted, and are all of a sudden a NCO and expected to act and perform as one. That is a radical transition for many young SPCs and SGTs. Without any formal training more than memorizing book answers to regurgitate at the board, the new SGT is done a disservice. How do you expect someone who was a SPC yesterday to be a professional NCO today without any preparation or training?Having a Soldier transition from CPL to SGT would be much easier, and give the new SGT some on the job training and experience being a NCO.
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SGT Philip Popa
Agreed. But think the actual difference between CPL and SPC isn't really much except for responsibility. We already have enough SPC that are content with their rank. And seeing as RCP is not enforced, think we are beating a dead horse. The biggest issue I see is no one is really trained to be an NCO until they have already achieved the rank. And it is easy to pass a promotion board, but 90% of them can't handle the job.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
Yes it is that responsibility that we need to instill in a new CPL. SPCs that are content with their rank aren't moving up, and will be RCPed. WHO isn't enforcing RCP? I haven't seen RCP not be enforced... In fact, I know several junior enlisted and NCOs who have beenn RCPed within the last couple of years. If your unit isn't enforcing RCPs, then there is a command/leadership problem! However, the current QMP/QSP will find those who need to go. The Commander's Retention Program will also weed out junior enlisted who are "too comfortable" with their rank and have not made an effort to progress.
My original idea solves the "biggest issue" you see (your second to last sentence). Lateralling a SPC(P) to CPL gives the Soldier time to assume a leadership role, separate him/herself from being a junior enlisted Soldier, and start thinking like a NCO. I think this would give our up and coming leaders a better chance at success, rather than just pinning SGT rank on someone and hoping for the best.
My original idea solves the "biggest issue" you see (your second to last sentence). Lateralling a SPC(P) to CPL gives the Soldier time to assume a leadership role, separate him/herself from being a junior enlisted Soldier, and start thinking like a NCO. I think this would give our up and coming leaders a better chance at success, rather than just pinning SGT rank on someone and hoping for the best.
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SFC (Join to see)
You make it sound like there is no leadership training for new E-5’s. Soldiers are trained everyday, by example, by their senior NCO’s. That’s not to mention PLDC. I think it’s currently called WLC. How much training do you want? In my opinion observing good examples of leadership everyday is the best training junior enlisted can get.
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LTC (Join to see)
SGT Philip Popa - you hit the nail on the head. there is no difference between SPC and CPL except for responsibility. "promotion" from SPC to CPL is a slap in the face. Here you go SPC, you've done such a good job that we're going to give you all this added responsibility, work and hold you to a higher standard but we're going to keep paying you the same as all your fellow SPCs that didn't/don't work as hard as you did....
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I am in a MOS that rarely uses CPL unless we are short NCOs. If they are going to do away with SPC then it shouldn't be an automatic promotion. It should require testing for competency. We have enough NCOs among us that are book smart with no ability to lead.
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SSgt (Join to see)
I think they should do away with or at least make it look distinctive and less like some Cub Scout merit badge.
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SSG Laureano Pabon
SSGT Olson, wasn't the Rank SP4, SP5 and SP6 started during Vietnam war as a promotion to join the Army?
I seem to remember some advertisement that said: Join the Army and become a Specialist.
I was a young man at the time but I do recall seeing something like that.
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CSM Charles Hayden
SSG Laureano Pabon The time frame was more like 1955. My Army SGT E-5, with a Rocker at the time was converted to SP5 jus before when I returned CONUS in SEP 1955.
During my return processing, every time a paper read SP5, I changed it to SGT, E-5.
Before long, the system’s memory bank started using my input, SGT E-5.
During my return processing, every time a paper read SP5, I changed it to SGT, E-5.
Before long, the system’s memory bank started using my input, SGT E-5.
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