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As a member of the so-called "New" Navy, this question has been asked and talked about around my command for the last few months. I'd like to hear some different perspectives about it
Posted in these groups: 
Women in the Military
Gender
Women in the Military Gender
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 62
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Suspended Profile
I generally have many more important things to care about than sailors' genders. As long as going gender neutral isn't going to impact my ability to do my job and meet requirements of the mission, I can't begin to care.
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I have always said to my troops I could care less what your sex is as long as you can pull someone out of a fire fight in full gear and still do your J.O.B I have no prob if not get out of my Navy! It was my opinion then and it still rings true now!
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Boot camp was being integrated while I was going through. We shared barracks in Corps School ( though they were on separate floors). I don't see the issue.
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The people that are making these decisions clearly do not have an understanding of how the military works. We are NOT an equal opportunity employer. If you can't cut it, you cant do it. Standards should not be altered in anyway up or down just to make an MOS available to anyone. When I was humping 100 lb arty rounds from gun to gun I blasted a Marine because he couldn't carry them because they were too heavy. He should have never been arty. So no we are suppose to give them a hardy pat on the back and say "at least you tried"?
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It's been so focused on making people's feelings not hurt that we are losing focus on the things we really do need to focus on. Case in point. Death by power point. Spending so much time with stuff that literally no one pays attention to or will ever remember instead of actually training our people. Especially in reserve and guard units. Entire drills are full of BS classes that mean nothing leaving real job training and practice to maybe once or twice a year. The newer guys get to AT with a mission they haven't the slightest idea on how to accomplish.
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I guess I am old school. The only females we had back in the time I w serving ewre support people driving deuce and a halfs and what not around the post and in support of Operation Just Cause in '89-'90. I cannot believe how much the service as a whole has changed. Back in the 80s if Top or the CO thought you were different in anyway they'd put you out on an honorable and tell ya to go elsewhere. I am definitely old now.....I knew lots of folks who beat a different tune on the drum so to speak. I wonder if any of the guys I served with retired after 20 or 30 years?
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This kind of makes me giggle - especially coming from a guy of color. It wasn't that long ago when the "old timers" (and members of the "new" Navy) were asking, "Does an integrated military bother you?" I've done lots of research on the integration of gays and getting rid of DA/DT - and the congressional testimony reads exactly the same in the past few years as it did in 1946/47 when Blacks were going to be integrated into the mainstream - just replace "gay" with "colored" and "homo" with "Negro" and the exact same speeches were made.
And now we are integrating women.
Once you get around thinking of "us" and "them" you'll find there are actually very few differences. Are there going to be shit-birds? Oh, HELLS yes - just like with ANY group. Just work around those fools and you'll find the gems.
And now we are integrating women.
Once you get around thinking of "us" and "them" you'll find there are actually very few differences. Are there going to be shit-birds? Oh, HELLS yes - just like with ANY group. Just work around those fools and you'll find the gems.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Bet all those COs/XOs and CMC that lost their jobs over the past decade or so because of these Agenda driven policies aren't giggling. These are losses that can effect national security. Did your research on racial equality include that aspect? Sexual assault was never at this level a decade ago. Yes, all is good. Hmmm, why am I not giggling?
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MCPO (Join to see)
Thanks for presenting a strawman argument for us to knock around.
You're telling me that, post-integration, race-on-race crime went through the roof? Or, perhaps, it was still at regular *read: unacceptable) levels? Sexual assault is not the fault of the victim, nor is it caused by access to a victim - it's all on the perpetrator. We need to focus on the folks who are DOING the assaulting.
And this sticks to the old arguments: "Let's not THEM into the regular service for their own protection!!" Yeah, that's on record in the Congressional archive as well.
You're telling me that, post-integration, race-on-race crime went through the roof? Or, perhaps, it was still at regular *read: unacceptable) levels? Sexual assault is not the fault of the victim, nor is it caused by access to a victim - it's all on the perpetrator. We need to focus on the folks who are DOING the assaulting.
And this sticks to the old arguments: "Let's not THEM into the regular service for their own protection!!" Yeah, that's on record in the Congressional archive as well.
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LtCol Robert Quinter
Bad analogy. The only physiological difference between a person of color and a caucasian are the first few layers of skin. Don't need to get into male vs female.
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MCPO (Join to see)
The problem is that the exact same arguments were made and are being made - with the exact same wording.
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My first piece of advice is don't grow too attached to the so-called "New Navy." Over my 15 years of service, I saw about 15 "New" Navies. Every time we had our yearly sexual harassment training, the program had a new name, and people were pissing and moaning about the new "kinder gentler" Navy. Every time we had equal opportunity training, every time they re-branded the alcohol de-glamorization campaign, it was "Waa waa waa, kinder gentler Navy!"
Well, I can assure you we still managed to blow shit up, so don't worry about it.
So, now they're opening up a few more billets to women and people are freaking out like it's some unprecedented sign of certain doom. But don't forget, every community in the Navy that is open to women today, used to be male only, and before they accepted women, they could all tell you exactly why it was impossible. I urge you to look into how that turned out. If you don't feel like digging through historical archives, just ask the nearest submarine officer.
Well, I can assure you we still managed to blow shit up, so don't worry about it.
So, now they're opening up a few more billets to women and people are freaking out like it's some unprecedented sign of certain doom. But don't forget, every community in the Navy that is open to women today, used to be male only, and before they accepted women, they could all tell you exactly why it was impossible. I urge you to look into how that turned out. If you don't feel like digging through historical archives, just ask the nearest submarine officer.
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MCPO Roger Collins
LCDR Halinganji Kanani - two officers on one FA boat as of this month? We will see in the long run.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Just like the medical evaluations of women in combat have been ignored by those pushing the PC agenda, this is another example of some of the ramifications. But, of course, people like you will ignore it.
http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA400035
http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA400035
The Medical Implications of Women On Submarines
The review highlights traditionally important medical conditions for submariners along with the unique consequence of women's health care on the submarine. The information covered includes a review of the history of women in the military followed by a discussion of how women have been integrated into submarines in foreign navies and in space travel. The bulk of the document, then, consists of a literature review that examines gender...
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LCDR Halinganji Kanani
Who says anybody ignored it? That review was done over a decade before they put the first women on submarines. Did you actually read the report? It doesn't recommend against putting women on subs. Basically it says you can expect some of the same challenges they have on small surface boats and it recommended doing some long term studies about carbon dioxide levels.
They didn't integrate women because they ignored this review, they did this review to see if it was safe enough and the review didn't find any major issues.
They didn't integrate women because they ignored this review, they did this review to see if it was safe enough and the review didn't find any major issues.
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PO2 Nick Burke
It's not about the mix as much as the military lowering standards. Just look to the PRT standards today. They will also introduce gender quotas. They did it in the 80's to get more women on ships.
So to make it "even" the military gave extra chances at lower standards. They then will, yet again, put pressure then punish trainers who do not pass enough.
So to make it "even" the military gave extra chances at lower standards. They then will, yet again, put pressure then punish trainers who do not pass enough.
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