Posted on Jan 8, 2015
Does every MOS/Rate need the same level of fitness? What about an MOS/Rate specific PT test or events?
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I really hope this happens. Not all MOS require the same level of Fitness. I wouldn't use it for an promotion packet against all MOSs as it wouldn't be the same for everyone but I would like to see additional events that address some of the specific tasks that are measures of fitness for some MOSs. For infantry I would add pull ups or even a ruck. If you were a mechanics you might have to be able to hand carry a certain weight over a short distance. I would let senior NCOs in that MOS decide what they would require. The Army should not make every MOS have a different tst. This would impossible. But an example of how this would look is that any one in combat arms or in a combat arms unit would be required to perform pulls and a ruck. If you were in a field medical or medical support unit you may have to do a body drag.
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Be advised. The standard should not be LOWERED. The base APFT with 180 should not be lowered. I think it should be higher. I think it should be especially higher for some areas, such as the combat arms. What this would look like is using the standard test for everyone but adding an additional event. So if you are a soldier that doesn't much physical labor you wouldn't be effected by this. If you were a combat engineer in the 82ND you would be required to a bit more.
*****************************EDITED*************************************
Be advised. The standard should not be LOWERED. The base APFT with 180 should not be lowered. I think it should be higher. I think it should be especially higher for some areas, such as the combat arms. What this would look like is using the standard test for everyone but adding an additional event. So if you are a soldier that doesn't much physical labor you wouldn't be effected by this. If you were a combat engineer in the 82ND you would be required to a bit more.
MOS
APFT
Fitness
Edited 9 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 198
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I think that everyone should be able to pass a base test (like what we currently have). Further, higher level tests should be required for more combat oriented skills sets/positions. If a person with a particular skillset cannot pass what we have now, they should be a civilian.
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CPT (Join to see)
I completely agree. This seems to be the model the army will be going too. They will have to do something to bridge the gap between the male and female standards. The female soldiers are passing the Ranger PFT. So I think it can be done.
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I think this is a great idea, but, perhaps, rather than MOS based, make it mission based, perhaps at the battalion level? For instance, everyone in the infantry battalion has to do a road march. with equivalent but relative events for other types of units.
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These discussions miss several important points. First, strength is a skill. You only adapt to technique, not effort. So you need to be able to absorb and deliver force in all six degrees that the body moves. Second, the Army is all about "general effectiveness" vice "personal mastery" or "unconscious competence". Most of you here have done combatives and fought the one minute rounds. Do you really think even a 300 on the APFT makes you fit for combat? Are ever "fit enough"? The Army can come up with a better bodyweight fitness test that should apply to everyone across the board and be gender agnostic. I would suggest looking at the TACFIT "Q" (Qualifier) as example of a 30 minute test that addresses all six degrees of movement taht ae tactically relevant and also tests an important factor unaddressed by the Army: stress recovery (heart rate recovery). For MOS specific tasks, you already have the 12 mile road march in 3 hours, the standard obstacle course, the Land Nav courses, Combatives Tournaments, the All Army Small Arms Championship, the Best Ranger Competition, are all examples of physically demanding job specific tests. http://www.rmaxinternational.com/flowcoach/?p=825
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SSG Sean Knudsen
With the current state of terrorism inside and outside of the CONUS that has been growing for.....DECADES, have ALL our service members AT ALL TIMES, NO MATTER THEIR DUTY ASSIGNMENT OR DUTY MOS REGULARLY TRAINED AND READILY PREPAIRED TO EFFECTIVELY COUNTER, ENGAGE AND DESTROY ANY AND ALL ACTS OF TERRORISM AT ALL COSTS AT ALL TIMES WITH WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY.
SIGNED,
Your fellow combat wounded American
SIGNED,
Your fellow combat wounded American
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The Navy pretty much already does this. We have our "baseline" PFA scores that everyone must meet. However, members of the SPECWAR/SPECOPS communities; SEALS, EOD, SWCC, Navy Divers, etc. have additional physical fitness standards they must meet/maintain.
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PO1 John Miller
While I don't know too much about Army SPECOPS/SPECWAR, I'm surprised that Rangers (just to use an example) don't have additional PT standards they must meet after they complete Ranger training and are assigned to a Ranger command? Or do I not know what I'm talking about?
Please don't take that as an insult CPT (Join to see). In my short time here on RP I've come to respect your input a great deal!
Please don't take that as an insult CPT (Join to see). In my short time here on RP I've come to respect your input a great deal!
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CPT (Join to see)
PO1 John Miller There is a different test for Ranger school. They have the Ranger Physical Fitness Test. It uses the 17-21 year group standards. The events are push or fail. It is Push-ups, 49 in 2:00, Sit-ups, 59 in 2:00, Pull-ups, 6, and a 5 Mile run under 40:00. Now it may not sound too bad but you have to just about have perfect form. If your form is the slightest bit off that repetition doesn't count. A lot of guys I knew had perfect Army PFT tests and failed the Ranger RPFT. There is also a timed ruck in this also. So this isn't something new to those that go. But no one less in the Army does this. There is a very small percentage of those in the Army that are Ranger qualified or that have served in a Ranger unit.
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PO1 John Miller
CPT (Join to see)
Thanks for the knowledge sir. Using the youngest age group and being very strict on form make a lot of sense. Would you consider this an MOS specific PFT standard?
Additional question: Do Soldiers have to maintain these standards once they become Ranger qualified and are serving in a Ranger unit?
Thanks for the knowledge sir. Using the youngest age group and being very strict on form make a lot of sense. Would you consider this an MOS specific PFT standard?
Additional question: Do Soldiers have to maintain these standards once they become Ranger qualified and are serving in a Ranger unit?
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CPT (Join to see)
I would consider an MOS specific PFT Standard. But I would consider the additional events as doing the same. Bu in Ranger Units, such as 75th Ranger Regiment, they do have to maintain a high standards. It is a all volunteer unit. They have a tool that is called "RFS," or Released For Standards. They can just kick you out and send you to a regular line unit if they think you are not making their standards.
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I think we need one "Army" standards, but if we are looking to make things gender neutral, each MOS will need a separate standard. I don't expect dental techs to ruck packs with as much ease as grunts (although I am sure some can); I think it makes more sense for the "big Army" to break it out by branch or MOS.
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CPT (Join to see)
It would be difficult but what bothers me is how your age reduces the expected level of fitness. But if you have a fire team leader that is 23 and one that is 37 why should be be expected to do less? They have the same job. This is the same with males and females in the MP corps.
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If we're talking about a large efficient Corperation I would say yes, but we are still talking about the U.S. Army and I would have to say no , you have to use KISS with all army regs
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As a senior officer, I want to be evaluated on the stamina I have as measured against the number of meeting I can sit through.
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CPT (Join to see)
I am not excited about getting to that point. I am a 33 year old LT. I think I will call it quits at MAJ.
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It is common knowledge that different MOSs have different physical needs. Infantry needs more physically fit Soldiers than say Public Affairs. With that in mind, we should all be able to perform at a comparable level as an infantryman. Reason being that if we need to do what they do, we should be able to perform near their level of physical fitness. Just because you are a 42A doesn't mean you can't get pulled into an infantry patrol. Will it happen, probably not. But we should be prepared for these types of things. My opinion is that 180 should be failing and the minimum should be raised to 210 with 70 in each area. It boggles my mind that big Army pushes the Soldiers athlete concept yet we have so many who struggle to run 2 miles in their 60% range, especially with doing PT 5 days a week. I also think that rucking should be part of the physical assessment. Make the 12 mile a mandatory event to be conducted separately from the other events to limit injuries. the standard: 3.5 hours. You fail, you get flagged, just like failing the APFT. Make it just a little longer (time-wise) than the AASLT standard. Get rid of the push up and go to pull-ups.
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We are all soldiers and should be held to the same standard. Just because one is a grunt and the other is a paper pusher should not matter.
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CPT (Join to see)
In that case should the the Army APFT for selecting soldiers for military schools such as Ranger School and Special Forces Assessment and Selection. Should we only expect a Green Beret or a Ranger to attain a 180 and they are good?
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SFC (Join to see)
Now that is a different topic. There are different standards for certain schools. I stated we should be held to the same standard. Totally different than only expecting a 42a to only do 25 pushups and 11B to do 90.
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CPT (Join to see)
It is the same topic. Why should an 18B be required to do more than a 42A? They are both soldiers? SFAS is an MOS producing school just like the 42A AIT. I don't understand how you can exclude SF or Ranger and not exclude Infantry? Rangers are Infantry.
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I think every MOS should have at least the standard Pushup, Situp, and 2mile run (Army that is, not sure what's included in other branches). It would be very chaotic if drill sergeants need to cater to each soldier during an APFT based on their MOS during Basic Training.
Should the regulation change, I would suggest they implement the additional physical training events during AIT. However, what events should be included in their APFT test, would ultimately be determined by their assigned unit. Considering every unit is made up of multiple MOS, it would be less complicated and more organized if everyone conduct the same APFT.
Still sounds chaotic though.
Should the regulation change, I would suggest they implement the additional physical training events during AIT. However, what events should be included in their APFT test, would ultimately be determined by their assigned unit. Considering every unit is made up of multiple MOS, it would be less complicated and more organized if everyone conduct the same APFT.
Still sounds chaotic though.
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SSG (Join to see)
This should be interesting. I work out for fun, but I can't say that for the rest of the joes in my unit. I know quite some that are struggling with the current PT standards. Can't imagine how the additional events will affect them.
Also think our units should be given a heads up so we can start training to do the "Correct Form" for each event. I will be damned if I think I can do all repetitions to pass and when APFT comes they stop me at 10 reps and send me to the back of the line.
Also think our units should be given a heads up so we can start training to do the "Correct Form" for each event. I will be damned if I think I can do all repetitions to pass and when APFT comes they stop me at 10 reps and send me to the back of the line.
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CPT (Join to see)
In relation to the correct form you can read the regulation and met the standard set there. I have seen so many different correct forms I lost count. We all should just go off the regulation and if someone is not going by it they should be corrected.
I also PT for fun and really never had trouble with PT. I don't understand how you expect to be a soldier and not expect to maintain a certain level of fitness. That is beyond me.
I also PT for fun and really never had trouble with PT. I don't understand how you expect to be a soldier and not expect to maintain a certain level of fitness. That is beyond me.
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