Posted on Apr 3, 2017
Does everyone need something "shiny" to make themselves stick out from other branches/services?
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It seems that everyone has something that signifies them as special or different from others such as the color beret, Stetson, buttons. How did this all start and why? Is it good to have or does it divide us between us and them....legs vs. Airborne?
Armor
Airborne School
Beret
Awards
Uniforms
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 145
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I was USCG, and at least in the 70s and 80s when I was in there was not a lot of flash or differences. Pretty much brown shoe/black shoe the only pin other than aircrew wings I can recall from then was heavy weather coxn. You had to go to the National Lifeboat School to get it, and anyone who survived Cape Disappointment earned it as far as I was concerned. Now they have pins for Cutterman, and I suppose some others.
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We are all one but there will always be interservice interbranch rivalry. The Stetson show the origins of the cavalry scout or those in the squadron but I will be the first to say only those that hold the MOS should be allowed to wear them. Even though I have been army 15 years I will say the marines got it right not a whole lot on their uniforms. Their dress uniforms don't change, no patches stuff like that. With that said I know plenty that have all kinds of bling but never wear it, they went cause they were sent that is all. A lot of it though goes back to origins and tradition and a little shit talking rivalry is good.
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I recall seeing Marines wearing Ranger tabs, Airborne wings, etc. Badges aren't just "shiny" items but let everyone know you have excelled in your chosen field and strive to overcome and rise to the top. Why wear anything other than the basic uniform if you don't like additions. That includes medals, ribbons, and anything else.
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Once you have the EGAs on your collar or pocket, there's only so much you can add to that. It's like earning a million-dollar paycheck, then getting a coupon for 50%-off a latte.
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I don't know Major, I understand esprit de corps, unit pride. I was a 2nd Class Petty Officer in the Navy, I didn't often find myself in the company of Army, Marines, Air Force or Coast Guard. Even so, I always thought we were on the same team. Personally, to me, that's all that ever mattered. If various units want a badge to feel good, great, do it. The bigger the better. If someone wants to compare units and this is better than that, well, I have no truck with that. I know what I did and why, I never needed a badge to affirm it. But that's just me.
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Suspended Profile
Yeah...I like the simplicity of THE uniforms in the corps. Army uniforms=WEBELOS
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Well, I have to admit we probably overdid it a long time ago... and it is harder to stop things than it is to never let them get started. If I attend a ball with all of my awarded federal and state ribbons, I have 5 rows, and I never even saw combat. If you take a modern soldier who has deployed several times on active duty, and then gotten out and joined the Guard, they could easily be sporting 8 or 9 rows as a mid-level NCO, and even more if they stay for retirement.
That being said, many decorations serve to identify specific achievements that are recognized by those that share that experience. One of my proudest accomplishments was earning my EIB. When I met other soldiers wearing one, the topic would always turn to, "Where did you get yours?" or "True blue?" [Note: The first time I encountered the latter, I was puzzled. Turns out that they had changed the standards to allow soldiers to retest a certain number of tasks. In the 'old days' your first No-Go got you a, "See ya next year." TRUE BLUE indicated all 1st-time GOs, with no retests.] We shared something in common, and there was a bond.
Rangers discuss their class dates; CIB holders talk about their tours; EOD, Pathfinder, Airborne, Air Assault... all the little shiny badges, whether relatively common or highly restricted, identify something that soldier has experienced and is proud of. Yes, we have all known some that approach it as, "See me? Look what I've got!" But for the vast majority of soldiers and veterans I have encountered over the years, our "shinies" serve to identify us to each other... and encourage us to share experiences and memories.
"Wear 'em if you got 'em."
That being said, many decorations serve to identify specific achievements that are recognized by those that share that experience. One of my proudest accomplishments was earning my EIB. When I met other soldiers wearing one, the topic would always turn to, "Where did you get yours?" or "True blue?" [Note: The first time I encountered the latter, I was puzzled. Turns out that they had changed the standards to allow soldiers to retest a certain number of tasks. In the 'old days' your first No-Go got you a, "See ya next year." TRUE BLUE indicated all 1st-time GOs, with no retests.] We shared something in common, and there was a bond.
Rangers discuss their class dates; CIB holders talk about their tours; EOD, Pathfinder, Airborne, Air Assault... all the little shiny badges, whether relatively common or highly restricted, identify something that soldier has experienced and is proud of. Yes, we have all known some that approach it as, "See me? Look what I've got!" But for the vast majority of soldiers and veterans I have encountered over the years, our "shinies" serve to identify us to each other... and encourage us to share experiences and memories.
"Wear 'em if you got 'em."
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If you are a military person , you got to go back to where it started ie example the Cav and the hat it was the cavalry, Custers old unit was all voluntary ,as I was drafted and learned about the Cav.
one other thing your unit crest look up the history of it and you will see where these items came from , as I am authorized to wear the Stetson, 5th Bn 7th Cav( 1966-1967 Vietnam) retired 1992.
one other thing your unit crest look up the history of it and you will see where these items came from , as I am authorized to wear the Stetson, 5th Bn 7th Cav( 1966-1967 Vietnam) retired 1992.
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Is it good to have a friendly competition and pride in ones' duty point? YES! Those who go through the intensive training, go in with 200 people and graduate with the 20 who are left have earned those shiny things, those special berets, extra ropes and ribbons, and those intentionally make them stick out. We punish those who achieve through many avenues, how about we continue celebrating those who achieve? If you are a Ranger, Special Forces or a SEAL, you have to EARN that status. I'll grant that there are many who go into the military just for a career and really don't give a crap about the US, but most soldiers love their nation. So now we just tell the troops who are willing to spill their blood for their nation that they are nothing special, take away the feeling from them that they are special, remove their pride for the service and duty they have chosen? That is beyond foolish and frankly I'm surprised to see this question come from an officer in the US military. Those who are willing to go through the training and intense rigors of such training deserve special recognition and they should have it. ANYONE who is will to risk life and limb in service and defense of millions upon millions of ungrateful or uncaring people, deal with crappy pay, crappy healthcare as veterans deserves to have a serious pride in the branch in which they serve
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LTC (Join to see)
CPL Glynnda White this question stemmed from a conversation I had a work with a Marine who was asking if we (Army) all had so many patches as they do not have unit patches and deployment patches. It evolved to their individual opinion that Army hands out individual things for everything to say what you are (MOS) where they just all wear the same uniform. The question of why do we do so much to set our branch or sub-branch apart from others while other services (Marines) are more uniform stemmed from that. I did not mean to imply in anyway or take away from anyone who has earned their medals and spilled blood in defense of this country. I did not mention anything about taking they away. Just asking others why we find the need to separate ourselves from others. Even if you take away the elite ones that require school the Engineers (I am one) have special buttons on our dress uniforms. Is that really necessary? No. Do I wear them? Yes, of course. Was it any more rigorous of training than others? It is debatable.
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CPL Glynnda White
I'll say this major and I hope you pass it on to your Marine friend. I am Army and I love Army, I have a great pride in what I did as a soldier and where I served. I served in 2nd Infranty Division, Special Ops, in Korea and was very proud of it. Not many people can say that they did this tour-I still have that patch. Don't really know what marines do to show their unit, etc., but I'm hoping they also have some things that make them stand out when they deserve it. My one reason to separate ourselves out by uniform accompanying patches, etc? Pride in one's achievements, brother/sisterhood and a sense of belonging to something special.... Engineers? -don't know much about your training but my husband is a Vietnam Combat Veteran who retired as a light colonel. He is also an Airborne Ranger....the training he went through was unbelievably tough and I believe he graduated with about 20% of those who started-he deserves the special recognition that he received. He is also a double masters holder and instructed at several military colleges and won the respect of his cadets....he is a serious bad ass. That 20% graduation rate is about average in most special training. People who achieve should be recognized and in my opinion this applies in the military as well. I hope with all my heart that if marines have special forces that those who go through such rigors have some sort of mark on their uniform to show it..... Keep this in mind major, less than 1% of our population ever serves in the military. Each person who makes it through their respective boot camp deserves recognition just for that achievement. But those who go on to make the military their life should be seen and recognized and special units hardships, dangerous areas, etc. deserve special recognition. I think those patches are a great thing and tell a lot about a soldier.
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Its a plain and simple manipulation of the human Reward System. Militaries conduct the toughest tasks a society requires of its citizens, and our human reward systems require continuous incentive to elevate morale and motivation. Id imagine that at one point, when Infantry and Navy were the only assets militaries had to worry about keeping motivated, it was an easier task to control with fewer awards. However, as military tactics and strategy continued to progress, and non-combat fields were introduced (and forced into combat situations), which increased success rates of battles and wars, that began to require more reward systems to be appeased.
I'd imagine that pride and ego play a large role in human motivation. Everyone is a Soldier, but we also want to be better than the next Soldier in some regard, be it competence, physical appearance, strength, courage, intelligence, elitesness, etc. Militaries understand this, and use it to their advantage to create pockets of ultra-motivated Soldiers who will fight harder, because they feel their status requires them to, whatever that status may be. This status perception exists between the Departments as well, Army/Marines, everyone else. Its a natural human issue, so we might as well use it to our advantage to win.
It does create a divide to a small degree, when individuals forget that we are all human, and die the same way as they do. I don't mind friendly ribbing, but some folks take it too far and too seriously, which is when it starts to create real issues. My brother is a leg, and I'm totally embarrassed about it, but he knows i'm only kidding, and throws the ribbing right back at me.
I'd imagine that pride and ego play a large role in human motivation. Everyone is a Soldier, but we also want to be better than the next Soldier in some regard, be it competence, physical appearance, strength, courage, intelligence, elitesness, etc. Militaries understand this, and use it to their advantage to create pockets of ultra-motivated Soldiers who will fight harder, because they feel their status requires them to, whatever that status may be. This status perception exists between the Departments as well, Army/Marines, everyone else. Its a natural human issue, so we might as well use it to our advantage to win.
It does create a divide to a small degree, when individuals forget that we are all human, and die the same way as they do. I don't mind friendly ribbing, but some folks take it too far and too seriously, which is when it starts to create real issues. My brother is a leg, and I'm totally embarrassed about it, but he knows i'm only kidding, and throws the ribbing right back at me.
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CPL Glynnda White
Jade, you sound very scientific.....how about a lot of people love to achieve.....I don't know if it's so much the manipulation of the "human rewards system" as it is people who just love to achieve, to test their own limits, to see how far they can go....yes? and then yes.....to be recognized as an achiever, receive the rewards, the extra pay, the higher rank, etc. Every personality has a level of competitive(ness), however some are more competitive than other thus you see a graduation rate of 20% out of every special forces training....those that graduate I think are moving beyond that human reward system you mentioned above and reach inside themselves to achieve what looks impossible....how do you think we got the light bulb? It only took 5700 tries by Mr. Edison......
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SFC (Join to see)
CPL Glynnda White - It seems we are in agreement, but from different directions. There is no moving past the Reward System. Our natural reward system drives us to do the things we do, continue doing them, and do them again in the future, regardless of whether we are making a conscious effort. SFAS is no different, as their internal incentive is unknown (unless they HONESTLY tell you). The end incentive they are trying to reach, which is driving their will to continue, could be anywhere from the aesthetic prestige of wearing the Green Beret, all the way to the honor of conducting the true mission of Special Forces; plus everything in between. Physical and mental capabilities/limits are separate from the reward system; meaning we can both want the same thing, but only one of us may be physically/mentally capable of reaching the goal.
When I say militaries manipulate the Reward System, I don't mean in a sinister way; I mean the specific implementation of the process, in order to achieve desired results from the force. In an all-volunteer military, constant stimulation of the Reward System is necessary, in order to drive recruitment, retention, and professional progress.
Thomas Edison's persistence was driven by the Reward System, in which he likely achieved small stepping stone progress along the way (which is what happens when trying to solve difficult problems), but he ultimately desired the satisfaction of the final solution.
When I say militaries manipulate the Reward System, I don't mean in a sinister way; I mean the specific implementation of the process, in order to achieve desired results from the force. In an all-volunteer military, constant stimulation of the Reward System is necessary, in order to drive recruitment, retention, and professional progress.
Thomas Edison's persistence was driven by the Reward System, in which he likely achieved small stepping stone progress along the way (which is what happens when trying to solve difficult problems), but he ultimately desired the satisfaction of the final solution.
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CPL Glynnda White
Good Morning Jade am in agreement we are saying basically the same thing however you still sound very scientific in your analysis, I am more of an analyst based on inspiration, you are more of an analyst based on scientific method. Have a great day!
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