Posted on Feb 23, 2017
Does openly and aggressively berating or insulting people who voted for Hillary or Trump warrant an Article 134 violation under UCMJ?
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*First Edit*
There seems to be some misunderstanding: the nature of my question isn't about disrespecting or defying the POTUS, it's about when service members berate, insult or lash out at civilians, friends, peers or family members on social media or otherwise, simply because they voted for the opposite candidate.
*Second Edit*
Also, to clarify, I believe the behavior in question is wrong. I think some folks interpreted my question as asking for justification to be a jerk, but that couldn't be further from the case. I just wanted to generate discussion about people's opinions regarding whether being aggressive or hateful towards voters because of their choice was just being a crappy person, or a legitimate punitive breach of military bearing and discipline.
When President Obama won, there was a deluge of complaints, the birther movement, a different brand of "Not my president." Now that President Trump has won office, there's similar sentiment. On either side, there is a lot of aggression being thrown around. Do you feel Service Members have a higher responsibility to be respectful of the American voters, regardless of their choice?
Respect of the POTUS is a given, we're expected, as service members, to render that. My question is more in line with respecting the fellow Americans that voted; it seems antithetical to me to be aggressive and hurtful to fellow Americans, especially those that have dissenting opinions from ours, for exercising one of the fundamental rights we swore to uphold and defend.
There seems to be some misunderstanding: the nature of my question isn't about disrespecting or defying the POTUS, it's about when service members berate, insult or lash out at civilians, friends, peers or family members on social media or otherwise, simply because they voted for the opposite candidate.
*Second Edit*
Also, to clarify, I believe the behavior in question is wrong. I think some folks interpreted my question as asking for justification to be a jerk, but that couldn't be further from the case. I just wanted to generate discussion about people's opinions regarding whether being aggressive or hateful towards voters because of their choice was just being a crappy person, or a legitimate punitive breach of military bearing and discipline.
When President Obama won, there was a deluge of complaints, the birther movement, a different brand of "Not my president." Now that President Trump has won office, there's similar sentiment. On either side, there is a lot of aggression being thrown around. Do you feel Service Members have a higher responsibility to be respectful of the American voters, regardless of their choice?
Respect of the POTUS is a given, we're expected, as service members, to render that. My question is more in line with respecting the fellow Americans that voted; it seems antithetical to me to be aggressive and hurtful to fellow Americans, especially those that have dissenting opinions from ours, for exercising one of the fundamental rights we swore to uphold and defend.
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 205
I think so, as soldiers we defend the right of opinion that are counter to society or our own. As long as these people's statement don't invite others to be harmed physically or emotionally.
Discrimination because race, sexual orientation, preferred gender, or even lack thereof is an emotional discrimination.
Discrimination because race, sexual orientation, preferred gender, or even lack thereof is an emotional discrimination.
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I'm sure it has been noted in the 112 responses so far, but read the first amendment.
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Hey Jim, a service member should never ever berate a civilian or a military family member for anything and if they do they should be prepared to handle whatever action gets thrown at them. Hopefully they are smart enough to accept an article 15.
As far as one service member to another, in my opinion it's game on. In my early days in the military you got berated for everything no matter how squared away you were. I'm not for the new sensitive military and don't have much regard for people that are easily offended. I do respect everyone's opinion and right to believe what they want. You should be able to express your opinion, but you should also be prepared to handle the criticism as a result.
As far as one service member to another, in my opinion it's game on. In my early days in the military you got berated for everything no matter how squared away you were. I'm not for the new sensitive military and don't have much regard for people that are easily offended. I do respect everyone's opinion and right to believe what they want. You should be able to express your opinion, but you should also be prepared to handle the criticism as a result.
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Yes when Obama was re elected many were saying the same thing for a few months but we did not take it as far as the liberals, and democrats have. they have been behaving like the Brown shirt Nazi youth of Germany. We can take a few harsh words but when it comes to physical attacks and not the latest with assassination attempts, it is time to put the liberals, democrats and any similar overly aggressive brown shirt organization in their place with lethal force if necessary to defend ourselves and our government. President is our president and we swore an oath to defend the constitution of the US against all enemies as guided by our president. BUT we also have the obligation to defend ourselves from physical in order to defend our country.
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SPC Don Wynn
So, were you as adamant about supporting Obama as you are that we should support Trump? Even if we didn't vote for him? He is our President, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with what he does and says. It is actually my duty as a citizen to oppose him if I feel he is wrong. And since I am no longer active duty, his orders have no bearing on me. My oath was to defend the Constitution, not the President! And at times that could actually mean actively opposing the President.
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HN Chris Robinette
I was not supportive of the traitor Obama but I did not destroy private property nor attack Obama supporters as the liberals are doing now. I have sworn an oath to defend my country and the constitution of the US against all enemies foreign and domestic. I may not be active duty but I have not left my oath behind when I left the service. Navy Corpsman, NEC 8404. I took care of my marines.
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SPC Don Wynn
HN Chris Robinette - Nor have I. But, as I pointed out, that oath did NOT state defending the President! I will defend the OFFICE, but am under no obligation to the MAN.
And that is SOME Trump detractors, not all. And actually, it is a very small faction that wouldn't even be considered liberals, as they are most likely thugs and anarchists, which have no political adherence.
And that is SOME Trump detractors, not all. And actually, it is a very small faction that wouldn't even be considered liberals, as they are most likely thugs and anarchists, which have no political adherence.
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I'll put it this way, you're not to be criticizing the commander in chief. That being said, once a certain person left office, ten minutes later I made the comment that he could go to hell. He was no longer the commander in chief and held no standing or authority. I was pleasantly surprised to wake up and find that Ms. Clinton lost. I do not care for her as a general rule.
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Politics should stay out of the military how you think in civilian life is your business. To me this election was a lose lose situation. On active duty you serve alongside people who may save your life or you save his life there isn't room for hesititaion that politics may cause..
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Jim - I could see several other Punitive Articles of the UCMJ being brought to bear here; regardless of who is berating others for their political choices (and I suspect there are "anti-President Trump people out there in uniform too) doing what you suggest is certainly wrong and deserving of official action to correct this behavior.
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HN Chris Robinette
I agree with you on some points but I will follow CDR William Kempner's statement to defend the country, Constitution of the US and kill anyone attempting to over throw my government which means defending ALL branches of of the US government, even though I may not agree with many very vocal members.
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My point of view is that of a retired Federal Law Enforcement Officer with over 25 years of service and a graduate of the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center at Brunswick, Georgia. When I started there the golf course had a really great water hazard Albert the alligator and the Vietnam veterans would feed him chickens. That is still a topic of conversations down here in Washington during Police Week. Before anyone asks we old timers have long memories and a really sick sense of humor. The young people enjoy listening to our war stories especially when we are telling stories about the rookie misadventures of their leaders.
The Hatch Act covered my employment as a Federal Law Enforcement Officer as follows Permitted Activities were:
May be candidates for public office in nonpartisan elections
May register and vote as they choose
May assist in voter registration drives
May express opinions about candidates and issues
May contribute money to political organizations
May attend political fundraising functions
May attend and be active at political rallies and meetings
May join and be an active member of a political party or club
May sign nominating petitions
May campaign for or against referendum questions, constitutional amendments, municipal ordinances
May campaign for or against candidates in partisan elections
May make campaign speeches for candidates in partisan elections
May distribute campaign literature in partisan elections
May hold office in political clubs or parties including serving as a delegate to a convention
May not use their official authority or influence to interfere with an election
May not solicit, accept or receive political contributions unless both individuals are members of the same Federal labor organization or employee organization and the one solicited is not a subordinate employee
May not knowingly solicit or discourage the political activity of any person who has business before the agency
May not engage in political activity while on duty
May not engage in political activity in any government office
May not engage in political activity while wearing an official uniform
May not engage in political activity while using a government vehicle
May not be candidates for public office in partisan elections
May not wear political buttons on duty
The Hatch Act covered my employment as a Federal Law Enforcement Officer as follows Permitted Activities were:
May be candidates for public office in nonpartisan elections
May register and vote as they choose
May assist in voter registration drives
May express opinions about candidates and issues
May contribute money to political organizations
May attend political fundraising functions
May attend and be active at political rallies and meetings
May join and be an active member of a political party or club
May sign nominating petitions
May campaign for or against referendum questions, constitutional amendments, municipal ordinances
May campaign for or against candidates in partisan elections
May make campaign speeches for candidates in partisan elections
May distribute campaign literature in partisan elections
May hold office in political clubs or parties including serving as a delegate to a convention
May not use their official authority or influence to interfere with an election
May not solicit, accept or receive political contributions unless both individuals are members of the same Federal labor organization or employee organization and the one solicited is not a subordinate employee
May not knowingly solicit or discourage the political activity of any person who has business before the agency
May not engage in political activity while on duty
May not engage in political activity in any government office
May not engage in political activity while wearing an official uniform
May not engage in political activity while using a government vehicle
May not be candidates for public office in partisan elections
May not wear political buttons on duty
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It does not matter who is in the Whitehouse it does not do any good to berate anyone over it our job as a Military member is to defend the country the constitution and the CIC no matter who it is
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If it' starts to affect the unit absolutely. Seeing as the oath of enlistment and the thing Officers say both have "support the President of the United States" during my career the Officers were very good at changeing the subject.
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