Posted on Feb 23, 2017
Does openly and aggressively berating or insulting people who voted for Hillary or Trump warrant an Article 134 violation under UCMJ?
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*First Edit*
There seems to be some misunderstanding: the nature of my question isn't about disrespecting or defying the POTUS, it's about when service members berate, insult or lash out at civilians, friends, peers or family members on social media or otherwise, simply because they voted for the opposite candidate.
*Second Edit*
Also, to clarify, I believe the behavior in question is wrong. I think some folks interpreted my question as asking for justification to be a jerk, but that couldn't be further from the case. I just wanted to generate discussion about people's opinions regarding whether being aggressive or hateful towards voters because of their choice was just being a crappy person, or a legitimate punitive breach of military bearing and discipline.
When President Obama won, there was a deluge of complaints, the birther movement, a different brand of "Not my president." Now that President Trump has won office, there's similar sentiment. On either side, there is a lot of aggression being thrown around. Do you feel Service Members have a higher responsibility to be respectful of the American voters, regardless of their choice?
Respect of the POTUS is a given, we're expected, as service members, to render that. My question is more in line with respecting the fellow Americans that voted; it seems antithetical to me to be aggressive and hurtful to fellow Americans, especially those that have dissenting opinions from ours, for exercising one of the fundamental rights we swore to uphold and defend.
There seems to be some misunderstanding: the nature of my question isn't about disrespecting or defying the POTUS, it's about when service members berate, insult or lash out at civilians, friends, peers or family members on social media or otherwise, simply because they voted for the opposite candidate.
*Second Edit*
Also, to clarify, I believe the behavior in question is wrong. I think some folks interpreted my question as asking for justification to be a jerk, but that couldn't be further from the case. I just wanted to generate discussion about people's opinions regarding whether being aggressive or hateful towards voters because of their choice was just being a crappy person, or a legitimate punitive breach of military bearing and discipline.
When President Obama won, there was a deluge of complaints, the birther movement, a different brand of "Not my president." Now that President Trump has won office, there's similar sentiment. On either side, there is a lot of aggression being thrown around. Do you feel Service Members have a higher responsibility to be respectful of the American voters, regardless of their choice?
Respect of the POTUS is a given, we're expected, as service members, to render that. My question is more in line with respecting the fellow Americans that voted; it seems antithetical to me to be aggressive and hurtful to fellow Americans, especially those that have dissenting opinions from ours, for exercising one of the fundamental rights we swore to uphold and defend.
Election 2016
UCMJ
Leadership
Character
Office of the President (POTUS)
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 205
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I believe tthat that cricizing the person only increases the divide we are now experiencing across the country. The conversation needs to be about issues, values and goals. I suggest that most people feel similarly about goals, e.g. People need health care to make for a healthy society with everyone obtaining both preventive medicine as well as accessibility to care before things become complicated and expensive.
Having discussions about how to accomplish goals rather than right and wrong or demonizing the Other is both more constructive as well as respectful of everyone's particular needs, concerns and fears. Finding vehicles and the skills to do this is the major issue as media and politicians divide us with negative characterizations of individuals rather than dialogues on the issues with those who have other opinions.
Having discussions about how to accomplish goals rather than right and wrong or demonizing the Other is both more constructive as well as respectful of everyone's particular needs, concerns and fears. Finding vehicles and the skills to do this is the major issue as media and politicians divide us with negative characterizations of individuals rather than dialogues on the issues with those who have other opinions.
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As a civilian who has never served, I am uniquely unqualified to comment on political expression in the military; but I do have a corrolary question.... Do most of you think that the advent of the Internet and social media platforms has changed the frequency with which military personnel express their political opinions to one another or to civilians, or is it about the same now, but just more public because of the digital platforms available?
In my personal journey, I’ve been a democrat and a republican, a liberal and a conservative, and today I describe myself as a “liberative conservatarian”, meaning that I am socially conservative in my personal values, but fairly libertarian in my political values - with individual liberty being my highest personal political value. I am typically very open about expressing my opinions in that context, but out of respect for this discussion, and because “individual liberty” probably has different implications and relevance in the military world than in the civilian world, l will keep those opinions to myself here.
Politics aside, thank you all for your service.
In my personal journey, I’ve been a democrat and a republican, a liberal and a conservative, and today I describe myself as a “liberative conservatarian”, meaning that I am socially conservative in my personal values, but fairly libertarian in my political values - with individual liberty being my highest personal political value. I am typically very open about expressing my opinions in that context, but out of respect for this discussion, and because “individual liberty” probably has different implications and relevance in the military world than in the civilian world, l will keep those opinions to myself here.
Politics aside, thank you all for your service.
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Recall when Bill Clinton was elected one of my troops said in the office that he would never do what Bill and the Bit@# told him to do. Took a short counseling session to explain that this was an inappropriate comment for someone in uniform
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Even now it really doesn't matter who voted for who, that's their personal business. All the violence regarding electronics is childish play ground semantics that will solve nothing. The way I see things, then and now, is do your job and keep your politics to yourself. If active duty personnel act in a manner contrary to UCMJ or other directives then they should face disciplinary action.
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Conduct Unbecoming of a Member of the US Armed Forces, maybe... you said it well when mentioning military bearing.
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Our Vow is to defend the Constitution ..Politics should be left out of it..granted POTUS my be the highest CO.But anyone can disobey orders if they feel the justification.So if it is our defense of the constitution that is our code,not politicians,or political views.leave that crap out of it.
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My Colonel gave me the best quote when I asked him about the Kerry/Bush election of '04. "I respect the office of the President of the United States and all it represents." I took notice.
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Whom ever one votes for is their right and can be their mistake. It's still their right to vote for whom they want in government. Be grown up about it. There are so many out there who cannot be grown up about unless they get what they want. Life doesn't always go the way you want it to go. Hope they are grown up or are not mentally ill as it worries me at time in California. A person's vote doesn't deserve disciplinary action.
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Romans 13:1 says respect Government so when you don’t, you hate Our God and country
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