Posted on Feb 23, 2017
Does openly and aggressively berating or insulting people who voted for Hillary or Trump warrant an Article 134 violation under UCMJ?
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*First Edit*
There seems to be some misunderstanding: the nature of my question isn't about disrespecting or defying the POTUS, it's about when service members berate, insult or lash out at civilians, friends, peers or family members on social media or otherwise, simply because they voted for the opposite candidate.
*Second Edit*
Also, to clarify, I believe the behavior in question is wrong. I think some folks interpreted my question as asking for justification to be a jerk, but that couldn't be further from the case. I just wanted to generate discussion about people's opinions regarding whether being aggressive or hateful towards voters because of their choice was just being a crappy person, or a legitimate punitive breach of military bearing and discipline.
When President Obama won, there was a deluge of complaints, the birther movement, a different brand of "Not my president." Now that President Trump has won office, there's similar sentiment. On either side, there is a lot of aggression being thrown around. Do you feel Service Members have a higher responsibility to be respectful of the American voters, regardless of their choice?
Respect of the POTUS is a given, we're expected, as service members, to render that. My question is more in line with respecting the fellow Americans that voted; it seems antithetical to me to be aggressive and hurtful to fellow Americans, especially those that have dissenting opinions from ours, for exercising one of the fundamental rights we swore to uphold and defend.
There seems to be some misunderstanding: the nature of my question isn't about disrespecting or defying the POTUS, it's about when service members berate, insult or lash out at civilians, friends, peers or family members on social media or otherwise, simply because they voted for the opposite candidate.
*Second Edit*
Also, to clarify, I believe the behavior in question is wrong. I think some folks interpreted my question as asking for justification to be a jerk, but that couldn't be further from the case. I just wanted to generate discussion about people's opinions regarding whether being aggressive or hateful towards voters because of their choice was just being a crappy person, or a legitimate punitive breach of military bearing and discipline.
When President Obama won, there was a deluge of complaints, the birther movement, a different brand of "Not my president." Now that President Trump has won office, there's similar sentiment. On either side, there is a lot of aggression being thrown around. Do you feel Service Members have a higher responsibility to be respectful of the American voters, regardless of their choice?
Respect of the POTUS is a given, we're expected, as service members, to render that. My question is more in line with respecting the fellow Americans that voted; it seems antithetical to me to be aggressive and hurtful to fellow Americans, especially those that have dissenting opinions from ours, for exercising one of the fundamental rights we swore to uphold and defend.
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 205
We the People shall NOT have their Freedom of Speech infringed by neo-
Nazi military type control freaks, especially when OFF DUTY.
Nazi military type control freaks, especially when OFF DUTY.
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Just because you are in the military doesn't mean that you do not have the constitutional rights that you have sworn to defend for everyone else. HOWEVER, no one in uniform regardless of rank should be discussing politics while in uniform or when on duty. Actually berating someone because of their political choices is pretty bush league in or out of uniform. Your time would better spent simply explaining exactly why you voted the way you did in the hope of getting them to see the light and change their boneheaded choices. Politely and respectfully of course.
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Depending on the 'arena' used I can see where it might be prejudicial to good order. In a closed group where only a specified few are the ones to see it, well, we all have the right to make asses of ourselves on occasion, right? *grin* Now if you spread this to a public site and you clearly ID yourself as a 'soldier' (a collective term, that) my opinion is that you're asking for a legal beatdown. 134 is worded specifically to handle things like 'skunk spray' ie: something that is disgusting but not particularly harmful in itself. If nothing else you run the risk of a superior seeing your wording or having it brought to his attention and thus lowering his evaluation of your professional capabilities and maturity. Passion is allowed, abuse is not. If you cannot think of a polite way to tell someone he's full of it, talk to a DI or a CPO. I'm sure he/she can give you a binder full of comments useful in polite/public circles.
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Hell No!, She is a liar a criminal, remember the lies and Obama and his staff lied about Benghazi. She should be charged with the crimes she committed. Check out, JudicialWatch.org, they sued the President for not releasing the emails and othe documents. On their FOIA request.,there motto is no is above the law.
Ron
Ron
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It's conduct unbecoming of a service member. Politics is a quagmire but we are a volunteer force that is supposed to have honor, integrity and discipline and how does it look when a service member from whatever their chosen branch goes on an adolescent tirade about a given vote about a system that we all swore oaths to defend from all enemies.
Remember that each and every voting able citizen used their right as laid out in the Constitution to vote. That is their right just as our vote is ours. Who are we to second guess, let alone berate that? We are supposed to be above that petty garbage. When a person engages in that level of assinnine stupidity I simply fail to respond. It's like avoiding that drunk at the Christmas party. You simply smile and walk away and fail to engage and pretty soon they are off to badger some other poor sod.
Remember that each and every voting able citizen used their right as laid out in the Constitution to vote. That is their right just as our vote is ours. Who are we to second guess, let alone berate that? We are supposed to be above that petty garbage. When a person engages in that level of assinnine stupidity I simply fail to respond. It's like avoiding that drunk at the Christmas party. You simply smile and walk away and fail to engage and pretty soon they are off to badger some other poor sod.
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I voted while in the service always in private and never discussed politics at all. If you allow politics to permeate a command environment you end up with a toxic environment. In the only command this happened in my 17 years before medical retirement, it created a poisonous and fractured command. It started with the CO and bleed through to the lowest ranks. To the point where JAG officers were retained as well personal attorneys for the things said and done.
While in the service our agreement whether you look at it as a job, a calling, a commitment, however is to receive orders, carry out orders, and pass on orders to ensure our mission is accomplished. To never surrender or embarrass our brothers or sisters, and damn sure never end up on T.V. embarrassing our country.
I was forced to retire in 2016 and the sailors and soldiers that I worked with at that time were with the right leaders and mentors were able to stay clean and in shape and get the mission accomplished. Never caring or thinking about politics while in uniform, because it’s not what we do. We see the pictures and sometimes depending on how high or low or lazy or involved we are we get to change those pictures and remember a new name. Things such as like or dislike what comes from those pictures we can’t change and to discuss or mention would be to distract from our true 24/7/365 mission to make sure as many as possible make it back as whole as possible, because the guarantee is that every single service member who makes it to their first duty station will and likely through Basic will know personally a soldier or sailor who is a folded flag for their parents.
While in the service our agreement whether you look at it as a job, a calling, a commitment, however is to receive orders, carry out orders, and pass on orders to ensure our mission is accomplished. To never surrender or embarrass our brothers or sisters, and damn sure never end up on T.V. embarrassing our country.
I was forced to retire in 2016 and the sailors and soldiers that I worked with at that time were with the right leaders and mentors were able to stay clean and in shape and get the mission accomplished. Never caring or thinking about politics while in uniform, because it’s not what we do. We see the pictures and sometimes depending on how high or low or lazy or involved we are we get to change those pictures and remember a new name. Things such as like or dislike what comes from those pictures we can’t change and to discuss or mention would be to distract from our true 24/7/365 mission to make sure as many as possible make it back as whole as possible, because the guarantee is that every single service member who makes it to their first duty station will and likely through Basic will know personally a soldier or sailor who is a folded flag for their parents.
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I have always held very strong political beliefs, often at odds with my colleagues as we all know the service slants right pretty far. There is a difference between an intelligent, private political discussion among peers while in the service and having that same discussion in the public sphere.
Not once did I make my political views public knowledge while in the service. I think what we're seeing now in the current political climate just gets exacerbated when we all offer our opinions on social media. One of my biggest pet peeves is when someone (servicemembers or civilians alike) make broad generalizations about the political leanings of everyone in the military because SFC Uncle Joe told them that's how we all think. I think the current stand-off between the FBI and POTUS illustrates the dangers of civil servants making their political leanings known. Maybe we all know the FBI is full of professionals who, on the whole, would not let their political leanings interfere with a federal investigation, but the public can only rely on what they hear.
Above all though, we all swore an oath to the Constitution of the United States, and not any one political party, and certainly not to one single president. I think President Trump is a disaster, probably a traitor, and am glad I never had to serve under him. I can say that now as a civilian. If I were in the military, I would not say one thing about him, except that he is my President and the Commander in Chief, because that was the will of the American people, and that's how we all decided we would govern ourselves. I would obey every lawful order he issued, and frankly, the only time my political opinion would matter would be when I enter the voting booth. Plenty of people around me while I served found President Obama detestable. While I didn't agree with them, I always respected the fact that they just kept their head down and did their job with very little griping about it. That's the example I would follow.
In short, yes, I think UCMJ is an acceptable way to deal with those who want to make their own or other's political belief an issue in the military. I can't even imagine a unit that would allow their soldiers to berate people for the way that they vote. Frankly, if someone is so biased that they can't even have a civil discourse with people they disagree with, maybe they'd be better off shilling door to door for X political party than being a trusted leader in one of America's finest institutions.
Not once did I make my political views public knowledge while in the service. I think what we're seeing now in the current political climate just gets exacerbated when we all offer our opinions on social media. One of my biggest pet peeves is when someone (servicemembers or civilians alike) make broad generalizations about the political leanings of everyone in the military because SFC Uncle Joe told them that's how we all think. I think the current stand-off between the FBI and POTUS illustrates the dangers of civil servants making their political leanings known. Maybe we all know the FBI is full of professionals who, on the whole, would not let their political leanings interfere with a federal investigation, but the public can only rely on what they hear.
Above all though, we all swore an oath to the Constitution of the United States, and not any one political party, and certainly not to one single president. I think President Trump is a disaster, probably a traitor, and am glad I never had to serve under him. I can say that now as a civilian. If I were in the military, I would not say one thing about him, except that he is my President and the Commander in Chief, because that was the will of the American people, and that's how we all decided we would govern ourselves. I would obey every lawful order he issued, and frankly, the only time my political opinion would matter would be when I enter the voting booth. Plenty of people around me while I served found President Obama detestable. While I didn't agree with them, I always respected the fact that they just kept their head down and did their job with very little griping about it. That's the example I would follow.
In short, yes, I think UCMJ is an acceptable way to deal with those who want to make their own or other's political belief an issue in the military. I can't even imagine a unit that would allow their soldiers to berate people for the way that they vote. Frankly, if someone is so biased that they can't even have a civil discourse with people they disagree with, maybe they'd be better off shilling door to door for X political party than being a trusted leader in one of America's finest institutions.
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As a veteran, I believe it is in violation on the UCMJ, especially if it happens while in uniform. You're allowed to support whatever candidates you choose. However, you can NOT campaign in public or attend rallies in uniform. If the insulting happens at rallies while in uniform, the offender(s) could be courts-martialed.
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