Posted on Jan 6, 2016
TSgt Admin
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It is my experience that in about one year from graduating Tech school an Airman Basic (E1) will have attained the rank of Senior Airmen (E4); but still be far from the Professional Airmen that they should be. should the AF extend the TIG promotion requirements of the Junior Enlisted?
Posted in these groups: Star Promotions
Edited >1 y ago
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Responses: 52
MSgt Special Handling
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18
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In my opinion yes. We just had an SSgt make TSgt on his first enlistment. This is because the powers that be thought reducing TIG/TIS points on WAPS would fix our leadership problems. I'm not saying people that make rank quick don't deserve it but they are going to be set up for failure in today's Air Force where we are doing jobs that were held by SNCOs not that long ago. The expectations placed on them will be overwhelming and will ruin their careers if they fail to meet them. Get ready to start seeing a lot of 8 yr MSgts who's only experience is going to school and volunteering. They won't have dealt with many personnel issues and won't know how to mentor the junior grades. Sorry to sound so negative, I really would like to have faith in the new system but after seeing it in action I'm less than impressed. Rant over.
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MSgt Jeff Greene
MSgt Jeff Greene
8 y
IMO promotions for some come to fast. If you are a test taker you can make rank quickly but have not learned how to be an effective NCO. For the record, I am very much old school (1966-1991, retired MSgt). I saw many young people get promoted before they were ready to assume the duties of an NCO and especially SNCO status. Most eventually grew into the position with another SNCO providing mentorship along the way. Some never made it. As always, it depends on the person.
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CMSgt Lloyd French
CMSgt Lloyd French
8 y
There are 3 secrets to successful promotion testing:
1) study: Study (READ) your PFE materials. The answers to test questions come just about word for word out of there.
2) Study: STUDY ALL of your SKT materials. Just because you're good at YOUR job, it doesn't mean you know all there is to know about ALL of the job.
3) STUDY: Study your TEST when you take it. Get a feel for how the questions are asked and where the questions seem to concentrate.
It took me a few years to break the "code" but I shot up through the ranks after that. People get promoted quickly in all the services. They learn to lead from those who mentor them. Be a mentor, share your experience (good and bad)...they'll learn from it.
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MSgt Special Handling
MSgt (Join to see)
8 y
So what happens when everyone breaks the code and promotes extremely early at the same time all the experienced mentors retire? I'll tell you...they don't get the training and experience they need to preform the duties required. This has a systematic effect on the younger generations looking to them for guidance and receiving horrible advice. This is the current status of our Air Force but how do we correct this? I say we stop giving away E3 for signing up 6 yrs, it's not necessary anymore. We also should bring back time in grade points because they matter! We should also get rid of this "up or out" mentality. If someone is comfortable being a SrA or SSgt for 20 yrs let them do it!!! We need skilled technicians and not everyone is cut out to be a leader. These changes might help get us back on track. Rant over.
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TSgt James Warfield
TSgt James Warfield
>1 y
CMSgt Mickey Wright - Sorry Chief I didn't see where the person was complaining about not getting promoted but by the lack of experience to be a higher position. I already posted about the years I was so I'll let you look at that. However I remember some people who got promoted quickly who where book smart, but when it came to applying it they couldn't and they really caused a lot harm.
Also has it changed on how many can can get promoted. When I was in, it depended on field you were in. I was in field at the time where there where no pipe line students rank started at E-4, however for the first 5 years I was in that filed one had to get almost ace the test to get promoted ( due to the time in grade, Time in service, awards and decs. and of course performance reports.) Also truly disagree with you, there are those due know the material yet have a hard time taking test.
Since getting out decades ago, went to college, found out I was ADHD, back then it was not talked about much. Bottom line, I learn how control my ADHD and take test, to the point I even kept a I was on the honors list.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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I was under the impression the Air Force had the slowest promotion rates actually...
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SPC Unscheduled Services Team Leader
SPC (Join to see)
8 y
MAJ (Join to see) - in my experience even when we are given a leadership position, CPL is more of a show rank than anything meaningful, they still get treated as a specialist by their superiors and hung out to dry like an NCO when they mess up.
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Capt Christopher Bennett
Capt Christopher Bennett
8 y
Too true sir, too true
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SSgt Jimmy Jackson
SSgt Jimmy Jackson
7 y
Think I was an E-4 for ever. Back when it had E-4 Senior Airman and E-4 Sgt. One was non-NCO the other was NCO
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MSgt Jeff Bailey
MSgt Jeff Bailey
>1 y
Used to be the slowest, but not sure if that's the case anymore. While many complain about fast promotions, no one is talking about why these promotions are possible. We must have some serious retention problems in the mid-NCO ranks for 50+ percent to get promoted every year. If we don't fix this problem, the trend will continue.
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LTC Hardware Test Engineer
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It's not a one size fits all situation. When I enlisted, was 21 and had 3 years of college under my belt. I was more mature and better educated than many of the E5s in the unit. I came in as an E3 and got below the zone to SRA within 6-8 months. I was the lead surveyor on several construction projects. On one occasion I took over and designed a small arms firing range at Shaw AFB when the LT in charge came down with appendicitis.
So I am somewhat ambivalent on TIG requirements. On one hand, I think there should be a requirement in order to give a person time to learn and grow. But on the other hand, if the person is capable of (or actually doing) the responsibilities of the next higher rank, they deserve to be promoted.
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Capt Christopher Bennett
Capt Christopher Bennett
8 y
He said graduating tech school as an E1
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WO1 Ncoic, Water And Fuels Maintenance
WO1 (Join to see)
5 y
Fun story, coming from Shaw as a CE guy 7 years they put forced air ventilation at Shaw, and that thing is constantly broke. If you have not been there in recent years, they have really been transforming Sumter and the base has undergone huge developments IMO, minus the flight line area.
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TSgt James Warfield
TSgt James Warfield
>1 y
Best post I seen on the subject.
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Does the Air Force promote Airmen too fast?
SrA Michael Risney
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Edited 8 y ago
Bullshit..... Should be around 2 - 3 years total time in service to make E4? This would depend on what rank you graduated Basic with.

If you made BTZ or were just bad ass, some people would make E-5 in 4 years. Was not everyday thing.
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SMSgt Pavements and Construction Equipment (DirtBoyz)
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4
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Edited >1 y ago
TSgt (Join to see) I think what you are seeing is an issue in the ARC component of the Air Force. In the ARC you are correct, an individual will be an E-4 in roughly one year out of tech school which is also the minimum time required for upgrade to the 5-lvl. Speaking for the AD side of the house, the TIG requirements are quite sufficient IMO. Although TIG for promotion to SSgt may only be 6 months (with 36 mos TIS) if a person were to make SSgt their first opportunity they wouldn't sew on for roughly 13 months after notification. That is 19 months TIG and if you compare the differences in requirements of an E-4 to an E5 (AFI 36-2618) 19 months is plenty of time to prepare to take on those extra responsibilities as an NCO. From there, the TIG requirements increase greatly to where you would typically wear a strip for 3-4 years even if you do promote the first go.
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
>1 y
Sounds like the Navy except for the fund part. Duty stations and manning didn't matter. I had jobs that could have been done by someone four paygrades below mine and assignments that were normally filled by commissioned officers.
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SMSgt Thor Merich
SMSgt Thor Merich
>1 y
You cant really compare the ANG/Reserve side to AD as far as promotions go. The promotion system is different and has to be due to the nature of the beast. The ANG is even different from the Reserves. When I was in the ANG, we never did EPR's, so promotions were more based on meeting minimum qualifications and if they liked you. On the Reserve side, its a matter of open slots. Its fairly easy to get promoted up to SSgt. After that, people tend to stay where they are at and open positions are hard to find. At the SNCO level, its much tougher due to the lack of positions.
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Capt Christopher Bennett
Capt Christopher Bennett
8 y
Thanks for providing a thoughtful, logical, well thought out and supported answer. I love me some SMSgts. I hope you make chief sir.
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MSgt Dan Calhoun
MSgt Dan Calhoun
7 y
Great info put out on this. Having never been in the ANG I cannot speak to how they work...it is a very different beast. I can speak to the TR and IMA side having spent time in both components of the ARC.
Keep in mind in addition to TIG requirements PME requirements are still in place for ARC. So you may be a TSgt in a MSgt billet, but if you don't have NCOA completed you won't be promoted. Overages can be authorized to promote one grade above the authorized grade. As for the billets, in my experience it is like applying for a job. Unlike AD who tests and/or boards for promotion, if a position opens in the ARC you submit a resume and possibly go through an interview...depends on the hiring authority. Once selected promotion can happen very quickly.
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MSgt Michael Smith
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Ummm...it takes at least 32 months from your entry date to make Senior Airman, unless you come in with a stripe, in which case you would be an E-2 or an E-3. Also, does the Air Force "Promote" Airmen too fast?
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TSgt Admin
TSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
yea I saw my spelling error after I posted it, but could not figure out how to edit
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MSgt Electrical Power Production
MSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
I corrected it for you TSgt (Join to see)!
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TSgt Admin
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MSgt Joseph Haynes
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Unless TIG requirements changed since in retired in 2012, your timeline at a year is only good for E-3 not SrA. The AF has one of the slowest promotion rates and the lowest demotion rate (my personal observations). Look at the Army who seemingly freely gives and takes rank. A soldier can become an E6 by 7 years and I've seen SFC at 7 years.
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TSgt Mario Guajardo
TSgt Mario Guajardo
8 y
I retired from the AF in 96 and those were my observations as well. The counterpoint is that it appeared to be a lot more difficult to lose rank in the AF as well when compared with other services. However times have changed and per at least one comment here promotions may have been "accelerated" by combat losses and attrition. I noted casualty lists from Iraq and Afghanistan included many Ssgts, TSgts and MSgts. Napolean recognized the inestimable value of his NCOs and this had to be a concern for the military.
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SMSgt Maintenance Superintendent
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2
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I would argue against the AF promoting too fast. I believe that we have not been very good at accurately giving feedback, guidance, and have not challenged our Airmen to grow early in their careers. That coupled with not holding people accountable on there performance assessments has led to SOME people being promoted before that individual was ready. I believe that the change in how we conduct feedback, the accountability in performance assessments and boarding earlier in a career will make the some that aren't ready much smaller. Airmen will almost always have to grow into rank and positions that are new to them. This growth has to happen and is healthy but is VERY dependent on consistent constructive feedback.

In short no, we don't promote too quickly and the changes that have recently been implemented should further protect against those that aren't ready.
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SSgt Luis Romero
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1
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Things have changed in the 8-9 years since I got out. I made to SSgt in my enlistment, I never dreamed of getting to TSgt in those six years.
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TSgt Mario Guajardo
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That depends on many factors, the individual, their supervision, opportunities for training...just to name a few. In 20 years there were some that excelled, some that never realized their potential and some that were just there...
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