Posted on Dec 1, 2013
SSG Claims Representative
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I was at the gym with my soldier and he was wearing his army PT shirt with civilian shorts.  When we were about to leave a SGT from another unit told him that he was violating regs.  The PFC tried to explain that he was not in uniform because he was only wearing the shirt.  The SGT again said it is out of regs.  I came to my soldiers defense and asked the SGT if there was a local regulation about PT wear.  The SGT asked me if I was backtalking him.  I said no SGT I was asking for clarification if he wanted us to look it up in AR 670-1 or if there was a local ordinance.  He said look up AR 670-1,  we know that our soldier was not doing anything wrong because we had looked this up before.  What are your oppinions on this.  I see many SGT vaguely citing regs and not knowing the exact wording of the reg itself.
Posted in these groups: 4276e14c UniformsImages 20 NCOsDiscipline1 Discipline
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SFC Stacy Harris
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Without knowing the full context of the situation, I'm going to make a reasonable assumption that due to the three people in this situation were military, that this occurred at an on-post gym.  That said....

 

14–4. Occasions for wear

The PFU and the IPFU are authorized for wear on and off duty, on and off the installation, when authorized by the commander. Soldiers may wear all or part of the PFU or IPFU with civilian attire off the installation, when authorized by the commander.

 

AR 670-1 no where authorizes anyone to mix IPFU uniforms ON the installation. 

 

Wear of military and civilian items.

(1) The wear of a combination of civilian and military clothing is prohibited, unless prescribed in this regulation or other authorization documents approved by HQDA.

 

So, even those post-level "blue books" have no authority to change the uniform guidelines unless they get HQDA approval.  

Other key notes that AR 670-1 states...

 

In accordance with chapter 45, section 771, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 771), no person except a member of the U.S. Army may wear the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform of the U.S. Army unless otherwise authorized by law. Additionally, no person except a member of the U.S. Army may wear a uniform, any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the U.S. Army uniform.

 

So, all those army wives wearing their husbands' uniforms are wrong.

 

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SGT Public Affairs Broadcast Specialist
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SFC Harris,

I had never heard that bit from the USC 771... I've been told many times by many NCOs that folks CAN wear Uniform parts, just not the patches, but the excerpt you quoted CERTAINLY seems to say the opposite!!!
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SGT Section Sergeant
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Apparently no one here has read your message SFC Harris. The chapter you referenced should have ended this discussion.
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SGT Horizontal Construction Engineer
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While it is technically law according to US Code, it is one of those that is hard to enforce (wearing uniform parts by civilians) as it could be argued that it falls under free speech/expression.
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CW2 Uas Operations Technician
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It is different throughout Army posts. For example, Joint Base Lewis McChord has a policy that states, OFF Post you may wear the APFT Shirt with civilians, but not on post.  I don't see the big deal. You are right in the fact that many like to spout off regs, but haven't actually read them beyond ArmyStudyGuide.com's board questions. Also, many of them continue to teach as they were "taught". We have to take it upon ourselves to be the leaders we want to become.
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SFC Clinops
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You are so correct SGT Ray.   I think another member was talking about the uniform policy issues a few posts back.  Some uniform policies will change from post to post and that tends to throw a lot of people off since a lot of things can be determined at the Commander's discretion.
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SGT Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
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Does that include the same for Pt shorts and civi shirts.
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CW3 Air Ambulance Pilot
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If there's neither a Regulation, nor a Command Policy Letter against it, then it's authorized. Simple as that.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
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There you go chief. I was a big believer that if a reg doesn’t tell you you may not do something it is permitted when I came on active duty in 1966 as an O-1 I was the direct cause of three post regs being made or changed in my first 6 months.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
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Sgt if you cannot show me a reg or official written rule that says I may not do something I can do it. Check with the JAG SGT (Join to see)
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
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SGT (Join to see) - again sgt if you have nothing to back your authority you have none. if a soldier has clothes he may wear them most anyway he/she wants unless you have written rules against it.All you may enforce is what is written. as an NCO you had better be able to show where you are telling a soldier he is wrong about something. If it isnt in the rules and reg as a no-no it is legal to do and say.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
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LTC Stephan Porter -mean NCOs have no authority to act on their own to enforce anything at all.They may enforce rule,regs, and lawful orders given them by their chain of command
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