Posted on Sep 9, 2015
PO2 Mass Communication Specialist
41.5K
71
60
6
6
0
At my previous command, we were never asked what our appointments were for. I had a great department that trusted us that we weren't misusing their trust, so we didn't. However, and my new command, I constantly get asked what my appointments are for, from different levels of my chain of command. I'm not comfortable telling them, because quite frankly, it's none of their business. I just simply tell them that it's at the hospital. I'm not lying, I really do go to my appointments. But it's getting uncomfortable, and I feel like they know better.
Avatar feed
Responses: 23
PO1 Command Services
8
8
0
PO2 (Join to see) I have dealt with this issue both from a personal side as well as the leadership side. If you are having a lot of medical appointments every week, this is going to flag a concern on the leadership side (e.g. anywhere from one-three appointments a week, every week). Now if you are doing a good job of spacing them out or able to schedule them to not interfere with your work schedule then I do not see this being as much of an issue. However, perception is key and I think from a leadership position this inquiry is two-fold.

First, if someone is always gone at appointments then their fellow co-workers are having to take on their job/responsibilities. This can often leave disgruntlement in the work place and coworkers can begin to complain.

Second, if someone is always gone at appointments then this gives the perception that either (1) something serious may be going on with the member or (2) the member is misusing this opportunity to get out of work. If it is serious the CoC is going to want to make sure that they are aware of it. If it is not serious then the CoC is going to want to know why you are gone all the time and correct the perception.
(8)
Comment
(0)
PO1 Command Services
PO1 (Join to see)
10 y
PO2 Nick Burke If I do not trust the Command as a whole there are always individuals within my CoC that I have found to trust. The real question is, if you cannot find any AND you do not trust your Command, what are you doing to rectify the issue?
(0)
Reply
(0)
PO2 Nick Burke
PO2 Nick Burke
10 y
OK , but what if the one's questioning you are NOT the ones you trust? How much do they need to know? How comfortable are you sharing that personal info with them.
(0)
Reply
(0)
PO1 Command Services
PO1 (Join to see)
10 y
PO2 Nick Burke If someone from your CoC is one of the "trusted" ones and those asking either 1) are not a part of your CoC or 2) someone that "needs to know" then you bring it to the attention of those who are aware and let them do what they do best. Handle it. Either way it should help stop all the confrontations. Most CoCs don't want a "play by play" they just what to know if everything is okay or not.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSG Matthew Younger
SSG Matthew Younger
>1 y
I would say if there are many appointments then it does become the Chain of Command's duty to know. The Chain of Command is responsible for the readiness of the unit, if your condition interferes with readiness then it is their job to know. Every time you are absent due to an appointment, does another person have to make up for your absence. I would think your first line supervisor would know, then he/she could provide some cover for you from the rest of the chain of command. If nothing else, someone has to account for you, they may not know what the appointment is for exactly, but they do need to know where you are.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
8
8
0
Edited >1 y ago
Your commander and a select number of personnel folks have a duty and responsibility to know what ongoing medical issues that you may have, insofar as it affects your readiness and fitness for duty. Beyond that, your medical records are personal and protected by HIPPA laws.
A good example would be treatment for an STD (just an example, don't get mad) when you are married. It needs to get fixed and you might get a profile (I think the Navy calls them Limited Duty Chits), but answering too many questions could land one in hot water.
I for one don't want to go on any witch hunts, but I do want to know if I have a troop that is hurt and can't perform certain duties.

Without saying too much, do you feel that you have a reason to conceal your medical status, PO2 (Join to see)?
(8)
Comment
(0)
HN Hospital Corpsman
HN (Join to see)
9 y
Him being human is reason enough. Leadership doesn't need to know about conditions. Only limitations, why does everyone insist on leading people astray? Answer his question objectively and quit with the subjectivity. Do people really not care about the truth anymore?
(0)
Reply
(0)
1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
1SG (Join to see)
9 y
HN (Join to see) - I see what you are saying, but privacy is subjective in the military. The truth is, your commander WILL know what your conditions are, as will some admin folks and maybe the MEDO. They don't go around talking about it (big trouble if they do), but they have a duty to report accurately report what is needed to decision-makers.
The OP makes it sound as if there are multiple parties inquiring. If it were someone who needed to know, they wouldn't need to ask. They could pull it from MEDPROS.
(1)
Reply
(0)
HN Hospital Corpsman
HN (Join to see)
9 y
Absolutely, I'm just concerned for the OP as he or she seems to be a victim or cap leadership. Iv seen so many times leadership not needing to know details for any other purpose than wanting to know. I hate seeing people be victims of this, as for example they force him to feed info that is extremely personal and heavily unrelated to mission readiness. I don't like seeing fellow service members be takin advantage of. I have seen what crop leadership can do to a good person. 1SG (Join to see) -
(0)
Reply
(0)
HN Hospital Corpsman
HN (Join to see)
9 y
Iv heard a group of e7s cokeing and joking about a sailor I knows medical condition. It gets to the point where leadership doesn't need to know, if they want to dig let em dig it up. HN (Join to see) -
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
MSG Intermediate Care Technician
5
5
0
Sounds like your new command had (or has) a serious problem with people BSing about appointments and need to ensure accountability.
(5)
Comment
(0)
SSG Stephan Pendarvis
SSG Stephan Pendarvis
>1 y
That was my thought too. If soldiers would just do commo check with their first line these problems would not be there...
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Avatar feed
Does your chain of command need to know about your medical history?
CPT Mark Gonzalez
4
4
0
Your individual supervisor's have a limited right to know, but to save time I would tell them what is necessary for accountability. The appointment times and places is completely reasonable. You do not have to disclose your medical condition or specifics of the treatment plan to your supervisors, but if it impacts your ability to deploy or is duty limiting the commander is going to know or can easily find out.
(4)
Comment
(0)
SGT Project Engineer
SGT (Join to see)
>1 y
What the Captain just said.

You can keep it to the general knowledge. Where, when, and when you expect to be back. If I was asked directly what it was for - I would tell my supervisor that I would bring back a note from the doctor giving him a summary based upon what my supervisor needs to know.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
COL Vincent Stoneking
4
4
0
They have an absolute right to know. This is one area where the military command relationship is NOT like an employer-employee relationship. Contrary to popular belief, commands fully have the ability - and the right - to go directly to providers to get information about your conditions as well. Not necessarily all the treatment details (and only general outlines where psych is concerned), but at least the broad outlines. "But HIPPA...." is not relevant, because they have an actual need to know the information. (see below on discretion)

It is more nuanced than that, but I am not a lawyer, nor do I want to play one on the internet.

Three reasons come to mind in order or importance:

Your command is responsible for your health and welfare, which requires them to be informed about.... your health and welfare. This is the same reason they can do barracks inspections (and technically could do off-post housing inspections, though that is pretty much never done). Again the command is RESPONSIBLE for this. It is their job to be informed. They have some discretion as to HOW informed. (see below)

Your command is responsible for unit readiness. Your medical condition(s) can directly impact that readiness. As such, they NEED to be informed about anything that could impact readiness. They have some discretion as to HOW informed. (see below)

Your command has a responsibility to both ensure resources aren't being wasted and that service members are not shirking. See MSG (Join to see) 's response. (and see below)

Discretion:
Again, as stated above, commands have the right (and the affirmative obligation) to be informed where your health & welfare is concerned. They also have a large amount of discretion on how to go about doing that. They could go the over the top (in my mind) route of requiring you to take a battle buddy with you for accountability and an AAR upon your return. They could go to the other extreme and pretend to not even be aware that you go to medical appointments (dereliction on their part, in my mind).

Generally commands are going to go more towards the less oversight end of the spectrum based on respect for privacy (something that I personally think is overdone), belief in treating people like adults until they prove otherwise (something I support), frankly not wanting to know, and a childlike faith that their people will let them know if there is anything relevant that needs to be known.

Personally, when I was in command - and if I were to be in command again - I tended to take the "OK, great. When will you be back, and is there anything I need to be aware of?" approach. But I would not criticize someone else in different circumstances taking a more hands-on approach, at least not without knowing all the relevant facts, to include the local culture and their past experiences. My suspicion is that MSG (Join to see) nailed it.
(4)
Comment
(0)
SCPO Joshua I
SCPO Joshua I
>1 y
Best response I've read so far.

As a military leader, I don't need to know all the details necessarily, but I do have a duty to know what is affecting your work, and your medical conditions affect your work, your deployability, your co-workers' work, etc.
(1)
Reply
(0)
PO2 Nick Burke
PO2 Nick Burke
10 y
HIPPA rules will not allow the release of info not directly affecting job performance.
I still work here at Great Lakes. It has happened here and we were ALL(military and civilian) re-educated on the subject.
(2)
Reply
(0)
HN Hospital Corpsman
HN (Join to see)
9 y
You clearly don't work in medical. The only person who can inquire about a member is the commanding officer and even that is after jumping though hoops.

A command has no right to know about CONDITIONS ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!
(1)
Reply
(0)
PO2 Radiology Technician
PO2 (Join to see)
5 y
Hi Colonal,
Respectfully, HIPAA is FEDERAL law. Yes leadership should know important things that may affect readiness but that is very limited. The only person that can demand information is the CO and they have to jump through hoops to get it. What I'm saying is, the direct chain of command does NOT have the absolute right to know.
Have a great day!
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Quality Assurance Evaluator
4
4
0
When my supervisor comes up to me and asks me any appts I may have, I look at it as he cares. I have no problem discussing them with him (though I may leave out some details, as I don't want him to know everything about my personal life). Some people are not as open as I am, I get that. Unfortunately there are a lot of people that do BS about appts just to get out of work. I've seen it way to much.

Something I have found that your supervisor can do, is to call the clinic and ask them if you were seen if they really believe you are lying about them. The clinic cannot disclose who you saw, or what is what for, though can state rather you were seen that day or not.

As for others in your command questioning you, this part I do not understand. If your supervisor is doing their job with accountability, your chain should trust them and they should not be coming to you about things like this. This part seems like horrible mico-management to me.
(4)
Comment
(0)
COL Vincent Stoneking
COL Vincent Stoneking
>1 y
I overlooked that part. While those above the supervisor CAN come directly to the service member (they DO have that authority), it is a horrible practice. It micromanages, gets the same info multiple times, and undercuts the supervisor's role.

Also, the command can get a fairly large amount of information (though not treatment details, unless they are relevant), though that requires a bit of work, and generally an in-person visit, with proof of the relationship.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
MC3 - it sounds like you are working for a bunch of micro-managers. As a Third Class, it can be tough. Junior enlisted are often not trusted as much as they should be when they are away during work hours.

I would suggest you find a supportive woman who is senior (enlisted or officer) in your command, and talk to her about it. Clearly your command needs to learn about HIPAA laws, and in addition, male supervisors don't need to know about female health issues...
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
>1 y
Senior Chief - I don't joke around...
SCPO Joshua I
SCPO Joshua I
>1 y
Being asked about multiple medical appointments that take someone out of work for a significant amount of time is not micro managing.
(0)
Reply
(0)
1px xxx
Suspended Profile
>1 y
It can be depending on what/how it's asked... as the SEA, you don't need to know all the details about a person's health, especially if it's women's health issues, and she doesn't feel comfortable sharing it. The fact that she is at medical should be good enough. It is something that can be verified, after all...

Further, healthcare information needs to be treated like what goes on in a SCIF. I can assure you, as a healthcare provider, that releasing HIPAA protected information can get you into huge trouble.

I can understand your concern - what if the sailor is goldbricking? Certainly evidence of appointments at the hospital can be provided. But, unless the sailor will be having surgery and will be on CONLEAVE, the details are something that should be kept protected. Consider it this way - if you had testicular cancer, and had to have a bilateral orchieotomy (castration), would you want to share those details with a female superior? Probably not.
MAJ Security Cooperation Planner
MAJ (Join to see)
10 y
LCDR Rabbi Jaron Matlow
Health issues are health issues. The CoC is responsible for an appropriate level of oversight within the limits of HIPAA.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Mpd Ncoic
2
2
0
When I have appointments, I will let whoever needs to know that I will be at whatever treatment facility. I don't go into detail unless it is absolutely necessary. Because of the nature of my job and the fact that we have 6 people, I try to limit them to either before work call, during lunch, or late in the day. I hate leaving them with my work load as well as theirs. If I know that I will miss significant time out of the office because of appointments, I will usually come in earlier or work thru lunch to "make" up the time missed.
Now, if a person is constantly going on appointments to the point that they are getting more treatment done than work, then yeah, we might have to dig a little deeper. If it's to the point that a person is gone that much, then maybe they need to be in a WTU so that their sole purpose is to get the medical attention they need so that they can become healthy and mission capable.
Personally, if I had a number of appointments, I would volunteer my appointment printout just to alleviate any guess work. But no one needs to know why I am going to whatever appointment it is. It would be more for accountability than anything else.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
PO1 Warfare Development Center
2
2
0
If your medical history will effect readiness they definitely should know. If it is something insignificant or won't cause problems there shouldn't be any need to tell them.
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Stephan Pendarvis
1
1
0
I would say so but to an extent. We all know that when you raise your right hand you belong to Uncle Sam. It seems for the next remaining years we try to ignore this fact. I believe they (The COC) should know because you are part of a unit and they are as strong as their weakest link. I don't think they need to know everything...there is HIPAA and Dr./ Patient confidentiality. Everything is case by case. If they are asking to see if a Joe is shamming that is one thing. Soldiers will try the system just to try and be individuals. And if a Joe is having too many appointments then he is not contributing to the unit. I have been on both sides and the leadership side always sucks because you have to answer and be accountable for a soldier at all times. Younger soldiers do not realize this at all. You have to give an accountability for soldiers...they cannot just be out there doing what they want without commo checks with their first line. If a soldier just communicates with his first line this would alleviate many problems. But back to the medical history...it is case by case...I guess it depends on the Command an what is going on with the soldier.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close