Posted on Dec 17, 2013
Down-voting without responding: intellectual cowardice?
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I'd like to talk about one of the discussion mechanics on this site. Specifically, I think the idea that you can down-vote a comment without explaining why you disagree with the presented argument encourages groupthink. It lets you boo from the crowd, but it doesn't force you to offer a better argument or explain the flaws in the argument you're booing. I submit that down-voting without an actual coherent response to a statement is intellectual cowardice. Thoughts?
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Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 53
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Now for something that matters and it is certainly not up or down votes but people and the irony in that is, put your mind in motion before your mouth..
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Well, I'm on the fence and here is why ... just recently I made an innocuous comment in a discussion - and received a down vote on that. I was very perplexed about it, but at that moment only replied that I didn't understand it. 90 or so minutes later LTC Yinon Weiss added a comment that the mobile part of the system is imperfect and presently there is no fail safe for down voting in the mobile app. He said they are working on that but it has not been perfected as yet.
Does that say the majority of down votes are an error ... NO, but it does say it is possible errors are made.
Now, look at the down vote situation as a whole. More often than not down votes are seen in discussions that involve tremendous amounts of emotion or stout amounts of belief. We are all individuals & are all different in multiple ways. In the end, and in the grand scheme of our lives ..... does a down vote REALLY effect anyone to any degree? The only thing I can conclude from seeing a down vote is that someone is capable of showing dissatisfaction with something I stated. It doesn't effect how I do my job, it doesn't effect my family, and it actually doesn't effect me -SO- the end result is you have a down vote and a loss of 30 points (if you're worried about your influence score at all). It's not worth worrying about, at least in my opinion anyway.
We have a multitude of members here who survive in spite of being down voted so take it with a grain of salt and drive on.
Does that say the majority of down votes are an error ... NO, but it does say it is possible errors are made.
Now, look at the down vote situation as a whole. More often than not down votes are seen in discussions that involve tremendous amounts of emotion or stout amounts of belief. We are all individuals & are all different in multiple ways. In the end, and in the grand scheme of our lives ..... does a down vote REALLY effect anyone to any degree? The only thing I can conclude from seeing a down vote is that someone is capable of showing dissatisfaction with something I stated. It doesn't effect how I do my job, it doesn't effect my family, and it actually doesn't effect me -SO- the end result is you have a down vote and a loss of 30 points (if you're worried about your influence score at all). It's not worth worrying about, at least in my opinion anyway.
We have a multitude of members here who survive in spite of being down voted so take it with a grain of salt and drive on.
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I think there should be an explanation of some sort. I have had down votes that were accidents, which I have done on accident also.
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SGT (Join to see)
It's pretty hard now to accidentally down vote as RP has implemented an "are you sure?" type of prompt before it goes through. You have to down vote and then confirm the down vote.
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SSgt (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see) I didn't know that, then again I have never down voted, even before but I am glad they did this for those who do. thnks
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Capt (Join to see),
Well sir, I think it depends. If someone has a well thought out, intelligent post, but an opinion I happen to disagree with, then I'll respond in a similar manner. Using facts to back up my opinion. Then hopefully, engage in a challenging, but respectful discussion.
If the person's post is ignorant, inflammatory, and rude (aka, trolling) I'll just down vote and move along. After all, there's no sense in feeding the Trolls. As a friend of mine once told me, "Brendan, the internet is the world's largest information bridge. Is it any wonder then, that it has become infested with trolls?"
Cheers.
Well sir, I think it depends. If someone has a well thought out, intelligent post, but an opinion I happen to disagree with, then I'll respond in a similar manner. Using facts to back up my opinion. Then hopefully, engage in a challenging, but respectful discussion.
If the person's post is ignorant, inflammatory, and rude (aka, trolling) I'll just down vote and move along. After all, there's no sense in feeding the Trolls. As a friend of mine once told me, "Brendan, the internet is the world's largest information bridge. Is it any wonder then, that it has become infested with trolls?"
Cheers.
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Speaking personally, I use the down vote as a general "I disagree/don't like what you have to say" button, and whether I elaborate with a comment depends on a few factors. Primarily, can the person I'm down voting be reasoned with? A lot of the time the answer to that question is no since A LOT of people on this site take down votes extremely personally (see attached picture). Sure, I could explain my reasoning, but with people like that I would just be entering into an unnecessary confrontation that's better to just ignore.
One time I had a retired SFC inform me in no uncertain terms that he considered my down vote in and of itself an act of disrespect, which is a concept I find ridiculous.
Other times I wont put in a comment simply because I feel the down vote is self explanatory. Sometimes a comment is either so toxic or so simple that there should be no question what the down vote was given for.
There's nothing cowardly about down voting. Lord knows I haven't been afraid to open my mouth to openly and explicitly criticize opinions said on this website, but there's a time and place for it depending on the context of the situation and individual you are engaging.
One time I had a retired SFC inform me in no uncertain terms that he considered my down vote in and of itself an act of disrespect, which is a concept I find ridiculous.
Other times I wont put in a comment simply because I feel the down vote is self explanatory. Sometimes a comment is either so toxic or so simple that there should be no question what the down vote was given for.
There's nothing cowardly about down voting. Lord knows I haven't been afraid to open my mouth to openly and explicitly criticize opinions said on this website, but there's a time and place for it depending on the context of the situation and individual you are engaging.
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Down votes must be justified?
Oh, that is terribly arrogant. The reason I say that is because no one is asking that UP votes be justified. As long as you agree with me, I'm cool with that, but as was said, if you disagree, you'd better bring it.
A person should feel free to Up vote, Down vote, not vote, comment, whatever.
Oh, that is terribly arrogant. The reason I say that is because no one is asking that UP votes be justified. As long as you agree with me, I'm cool with that, but as was said, if you disagree, you'd better bring it.
A person should feel free to Up vote, Down vote, not vote, comment, whatever.
Now, if they wish to lend WEIGHT to an up or down vote with further commentary, then more power to them, but the up/down vote is a shortcut. It's also why it seems to carry fewer RP points than commenting does.
I may down vote because I disagree with the view, or maybe I didn't like the grammatical formatting. Who knows? No one, unless I take the time to spell it out. And until I do so, it carries very little weight. Yet, I've given my opinion. It's about the same as an up vote - but those are fine and dandy.
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CW2 (Join to see)
Sorry....all this talk about down votes had gotten me a bit confused. Let me rephrase.....great post SSG Stanley
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SGT (Join to see)
CW2 (Join to see) You've got to admit though that SSG Robertson has a nice ring to it! If only...
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Since the default display mode is to display a thread by votes, there are a few situations I would down vote without adding my own response.<div><br></div><div>1. Someone mis-posted, stated so, and was upvoted for it. This is clear influence pumping and I don't understand why anyone would upvote an obvious doublepost or misvote, but I've seen it, and I've downvoted it as a result. Nothing against the poster, but they are still getting more influence from the upvote than from my downvote.</div><div><br></div><div>2. It's obvious the poster wasn't adding anything to the commentary. Essentially I have a personal idea that I won't contribute to the influence of a post that was added for the sake of filler. I don't want to see these things so I down vote them.</div><div><br></div><div>3. I don't agree with something that was said, but don't have any additional insight to offer. Much like your post mentions that contentless downvoting encourages group think the obvious counter to that would be contentless upvoting, and I see a TON of that. </div><div><br></div><div>Bottom line, I feel if you agree with something, vote it up. If you disagree, vote it down. If someone feels strongly enough about their particular contribution that they feel a downvote is unwarranted you can contact them or lobby for others to support your cause. Either way it promotes sharing opinions and information. I honestly wish facebook had a system like this, I would downvote tons of junk on that site...</div>
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I agree that you disagree...I think? But the issue is that some people may come across the question wrong and simply down vote. If you disagree, tell me why. If I call you stupid face and you down that I would understand. If you down vote a statement that I am making about my experience in the military it adds nothing to the argument. It is more about policing ourselves. I was proud to get my first down vote. I have a lot of them but I simply want to ask the questions that may not be popular.
I will leave it at this. I all tell my NCOs, take tell me you have a problem but tell me how you are fixing it. If you tell me there is a problem you are not doing your job as an NCO taking care of it. Now it is an issue that I will need to get involved with I will understand. Take charge of your actions and explain it to the other person and tell them why you disagree.
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I don't believe I have used the down vote yet (if my memory is good), but I think if you made it where a down vote prompted a comment as well before letting it save would be a good idea.
I asked a question on a different topic a while back and got some real good feedback - sometimes you get opinions that are vastly different then your own thinking which is a good thing. Our world is great because of all the diverse thinking and infinite possibilities that are created and/or caused by that diversity (plus our freedom of speech is one of our greatest assets).
When you get a difference of opinion it should open up your mind to rethink and reassess the topic - you might be right or you might have a skewed way of looking at the subject. Diversity promotes engagement of the thought processes - and makes this planet a lot more interesting to be a part of.
I joined this web site for the connection of other personnel that are in the service now, were in the service at some point and for those that made it a career. I wanted to be able to provide some people with some of the knowledge and lessons I learned along my path through the military. I also figured I could expand my knowledge base and perspective through the words expressed here by other members.
Of course, through the whole process if I made connections that helped me towards my new goal of a civilian career all the better - that's what makes this site like no other.
We are a special group of individuals who have sacrificed lot for this country. No civilian will truly ever know what all we have experienced during our times in service. This community has such a great diverse group that allows all ranks and positions to speak together on the same level. The amount of knowledge and advice present and being giving away freely is amazing and priceless.
Sorry for the long post - once I get going the words start flowing.
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Well let me address this question because I feel like it is directed towards me. I down voted that post because I honestly thought it was an ignorant post. I found it to be a waste of time and counter productive to respond to it. I used the down vote because I disagreed with it. This is life and people are not going to always agree with you. Just because they have a different opinion doesn't make them a coward. I would not be offended if someone down voted something I said without an explanation. I don't have a sense of entitlement or arrogance to think somebody OWES me a reason of why they disagree with me. This is America and people have the right to their own opinions.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
Capt Day, just to clarify -- SFC Womack is referring to his down vote on the other thread that I had linked to here. Thanks everyone for the good discussion on this. It's clear we should improve on this functionality, and we'll work to make it better for everyone involved!
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SFC Lamont Womack
MSG Cunningham,
This is about a post on a website. This has nothing to do with how an individual would act given a situation in the Army. If the website did not want anyone to down vote a post then the option would not be availiable to do so. I have never personally met you or served with you but if you want to assume I'm part of the problem based on a down vote without a response that's your choice. I appreciate your response though.
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MSgt (Join to see)
If a post is a waste of time or counter productive why respond at all? Why waste your time with it just move on. Theres much more interesting conversations going on. I personally can't stand that 2nd LT, 1st LT saluting one. Ive never gave a down vote, but I have sure voiced my opinion good or bad.
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CW2 (Join to see)
Thick skin, people!!! Stop getting bent out of shape over a dang vote. This whole thread is a a direct reflection of the "why?" generation of Soldiers. Everyone thinks they are owed and explanation, the truth is that sometimes the explanation is "because I said so!!" I suggest that you all put your big boy pants on and stop crying over something you have no control over. If someone chooses not to leave a response after a down vote then who cares? It's time to Soldier up and drive on.
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