Posted on Mar 1, 2015
Drill Sergeant or Recruiter? ** and why in comments**
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I'm close to making E-6 as an 88M. I want something outside of my CMF that could assist me in making E-7 and guide me into possible retirement.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 37
I was DA selected for Recruiting (82-85), I fought like hell to not go. Recruiting back then was a different world then recruiting duty today. But I still ask when I see the badge and it's still a hated assignment by the majority. The things that we were taught as young Soldiers and NCOs were often tossed out in the yard. Morale, welfare of the Soldier, consideration for their family and family issues all took a back seat to putting someone on the floor, getting the contract, shipping that DEP, and mission box; Hero to zero with just the overnight change in the date at the end of the recruiting month. It was rough for me, well, actually I made it rough for myself as a recruiting station commander because I refused to turn my back on my recruiters when they needed someone to support them. Even so, when I left recruiting at the end of my 3 yr detailed duty, I had made E7 while out there (1 0f 2 in my MOS that year that got promoted Army wide and both of us were on recruiting duty). Because of my stubborness, I did not leave with a max EER, however, I was successful and had the awards to show for it. All I wanted was to get back to the mainstream Army and back to leading Soldiers and not being lead by those who had forgotten what leading was.
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Recruiting today has changed a great deal and for the better in my opinion, however, it's still a dreaded duty assignment. There are also many war stories about Drill Sergeant Duty as well. The Army has changed a great deal since the time I'm writing about and my old tales won't help with the decision making.
I would suggest that you go out and visit your local Army Recruiting Office and talk to the Recruiters. You will most likely hear the good and the bad aspect of the assignment. Talk to some of the former Drill Sergeants from your unit, battalion, etc. Then sit down and make the old Pros/Cons list for each one. Do some self reflection on your personality, leadership style, tolerance for BS, how would each one impact your family/marriage, if money is an issue-then add that to the consideration. Most recruiting assignments will prevent you from have access to PX, commissary, etc.
Good thinking on your part in looking forward and wanting to make the decision before you get orders and then have no choice. Wishing you good luck with which ever one you choose...either way, I suspect you will do well......whether you like it out there or not and will be glad to back to a TO&E unit again.
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Recruiting today has changed a great deal and for the better in my opinion, however, it's still a dreaded duty assignment. There are also many war stories about Drill Sergeant Duty as well. The Army has changed a great deal since the time I'm writing about and my old tales won't help with the decision making.
I would suggest that you go out and visit your local Army Recruiting Office and talk to the Recruiters. You will most likely hear the good and the bad aspect of the assignment. Talk to some of the former Drill Sergeants from your unit, battalion, etc. Then sit down and make the old Pros/Cons list for each one. Do some self reflection on your personality, leadership style, tolerance for BS, how would each one impact your family/marriage, if money is an issue-then add that to the consideration. Most recruiting assignments will prevent you from have access to PX, commissary, etc.
Good thinking on your part in looking forward and wanting to make the decision before you get orders and then have no choice. Wishing you good luck with which ever one you choose...either way, I suspect you will do well......whether you like it out there or not and will be glad to back to a TO&E unit again.
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Greetings! I ended up doing an AGR tour as a US Army Reserve Recruiter (00E40) back in 1983-86... I was a devout introvert when I started, and felt like a fish out of the water for most of the first year... Glad I had an awesome Station Commander who actually knew how hard it was to put people in boots. My RA counterparts had missions of 1-2 per month, my lowest mission in 3 years was 5! Never rolled a doughnut, and only had a single twinkie in 33 months on production. Earned a gold badge the second year and was Reserve Recruiter of the Year, Top 56 Club, etc.
Had a nearly 1-1 conversion rating, so my reward was making phone calls to help out the RA recruiters with missions of 1 who weren't making it....
Three years of Recruiting duty was more than enough, but got recruited off AD to become an Executive Recruiter with Management Recruiters International... Spent almost 15 years hunting heads.... Living at Ft Living Room was nice and gave me a path to civilian employment.
Had a nearly 1-1 conversion rating, so my reward was making phone calls to help out the RA recruiters with missions of 1 who weren't making it....
Three years of Recruiting duty was more than enough, but got recruited off AD to become an Executive Recruiter with Management Recruiters International... Spent almost 15 years hunting heads.... Living at Ft Living Room was nice and gave me a path to civilian employment.
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I am partial to Drill Sergeants within the unit, they are master trainers!
There are additional options to consider concerning the generating force, have you thought about becoming an AIT Platoon Sergeant or becoming a Service School Instructor?
There are additional options to consider concerning the generating force, have you thought about becoming an AIT Platoon Sergeant or becoming a Service School Instructor?
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SGT(P) Daniel McBride
Honestly CSM, I have. Even the possibilitary of being an O.C. has crossed my mind. Whatever can help me advance...I will broaden my horizons and do to the fullest of my abilities.
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Either are listed as critical right now. Either are looked at as helping you when Branch looks at you for your MOS. The question is going to be what do you feel that you can handle the most of. I am going into recruiting knowing that there are a lot of challenges that I am going to face in recruiting, yet these are something that I am willing to face and when I looked at the option of Drill Sergeant it was something that I was not interested in at all. I am more interested in bringing future Soldiers into the Army than dealing with the Soldiers that are brought in. When you look at "which one is going to help you more" they are both going to help you the same. It is all going to depend on you.
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I commanded a Recruiting Company for over four years and found it the hardest assignment in my military career, and I served two tours in Baghdad, one at the tactical level and one at the operational level. I never felt so estranged from my military family. I do not speak of geography. I and my NCOs suffered a wide variety of indignities as we sought qualified applicants; many of which seemed to find their source in our HQ. All that aside, I learned more about leadership in those years than I would have thought possible; lessons which stood me in good stead walking the streets of Baghdad.
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I was a recruiter for more than five years. First year was great from then on it was all down hill. I was working so many hours that I mine as well have done deployment after deployment. When you're succesful you're the man in the chain of commands eyes. One bad month is a bad NCOER. You can have a stellar year and one or two bad months you're just a dud. It doesn't matter to the chain how many hours you've worked how many you've put in boots in the past. I got out by volunteering to deploy ended up getting shot twice seeing two of my comrades brutally murdered when I retu my chain of command wanted me to forget what had happened and return to duty as a recruiter. Best day of my life was the day I medical retired 100% disable with TBI and severe PTSD.
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SFC Harold Benton
I am sorry that was your way out and i wish you all the best. Your description of recruiting mirrored mine. In October of my second year i received many awards at the end of year battalion banquet. At the end of that month I had "rolled a donut". I was counseled on being an ineffective recruiter. My comment of the form was that if I am an ineffective recruiter I should be sent back to the regular Army. A couple months later i was out and back home in the field artillery.
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It all depends on what you want. Having an additional duty assignment like DS or Recruiter is definitely helpful. Are you more of a "Ruckin' it Alongside your Troops" kind of a leader or a "Logistical" leader.
The other things you could look into are AIT Instructor/PSG or NCOES Instructor.
The other things you could look into are AIT Instructor/PSG or NCOES Instructor.
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I was both a Service school Instructor and a black hat trainer as well as an NCO Academy SGL and Senior Instructor there. I never compare the three, Recruiter, Drill SGT, or Service School however, I do believe all three have equal promotion potential and career enhancements. There are some post service benefits to the recruiter and service school training and experience that the DI position lacks. 1st, recruiter TNG sets you up for great sales both inside and outside, positions. The instructor opens up classroom teacher, TNG positions, etc. An example is when I applied for my teachers credentials the TNG and certifications I received as a service school instructor saved me 1500 dollars and 4 college courses. The experience itself prepared me for the classroom. Now I know the DI teaches and can also be good experience for the classroom in civilian schools but I'm not sure of the transfer of credits and course requirements being met. Bottom line up front, your choice and subsequent selection for either of these two (3), career choices will be based on personality, opportunity, and short/long term goals. We all know some that shouldn't have been a DI, recruiter, or instructor and others that were bang on perfect for the jobs. DA selection only looks at numbers and I think you should be interviewed once selected to determine aptitude.
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I did both. Recruiter from 91-94 and DS from 2000-2004. Recruiting sucks unless you are good at sales. I wasn't. DS is the most difficult job I ever loved. It is probably easier to hurt your career in recruiting then as a DS. If you miss your numbers, stress goes up for you, your station, and your family. At least as a DS you still have all the support of a military base.
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While I think it is important that you are looking ahead and trying to take the steps to assist you in promotion. I also think is important that you complete that step previous to making SFC. You are a sergeant now, get your 18 to 24 months in that next duty position. I am not an 88M so I do know the progression from Sgt to Ssg. I can safely deduct that it's something of greater responsibility. Then once you have done that make your choise on which route to take. Being a drill sergeant or recruiter is important but it is more important that we put Soldiers in these positions who are already qualified in their current grade or rank. Either way most of this is opinion and I wish you the best.
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I have seen too many people get in trouble on Recruiting duty. Not that you are a trouble maker but I avoided it like the plague.
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When I rotated back to the states from Panama they wanted me to go to the 10th SFA in Massachusetts I felt like I could not handle the cold weather after being in Panama for 3 and one half years. Special Forces was going through a down sizing and I was first offered a job as a recruiter which I declined then drill sergeant and I declined again. I finally settled on a ROTC assignment to Georgia Institute of Technology. I guess you could say that was both Drill Sergeant and Recruiter. It was enough that I decided to retire from there after 2 years there and a total of 21 and one half years of military. I took a job as a corporate pilot after that and spent 31 years at that and still do some corporate fill in and flight instruct. At 75 years of age I keep thinking that it is time to retire but just cannot make myself do it. Every year when it is time to renew my flight physical I think maybe that will be my last but I have been passing it and go for another year. I think I need a good vacation. Any advice?
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Call me biased, but go with being a DS. Both are respectable and honorable, but to be a DS, it takes a hard commitment to knowing the line between mentor, counselor, leader, and in rare cases recommending discipline. DS are the biggest pricks you'll ever meet, but man are they some of the best pricks you'll ever get to follow.
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SGT McBride, I commend you on taking your career seriously, not simply waiting and relying on decisions made for your career by people who most likely know very little about you other than what is on paper, and your seeking advice from others (who are as much your mentors and your admirers). Of all the comments I've seen posted so far to your question, I've only seen truth as seen from others eyes and the impact the differences have made in their lives and careers. Life is too short to live feeling like victim rather than a victor; therefore, if you have a preference one way or another then make your choice suit you. The most important part of your decision is will it make you happy and feel fulfilled living doing what you have selected. I have trained recruits (not as a Drill Sergeant) and I have recruited (as a school trained recruiter) and found them equally rewarding. There is no doubt that recruiters deal with pressures that are hard to adapt to from "normal" military service; however, those same pressures will push you to be dependent on yourself without the ability to blame anyone except yourself for your results (or lack thereof). No doubt Drill Sergeants make lasting impressions on everyone who makes it through Basic Combat Training; however, Recruiters make the largest and longest lasting (regardless if most realize it or not). Without a recruiter there would be any young Americans for Drill Sergeants to mold. Recruiters must have the vision to see those diamonds in the rough, convince them and their centers of influences that they have something undeniable to contribute to the service of our nation, and them aid them in passing through the gauntlet of a weeding out process. Meanwhile, Recruiters must live out the Army Values among people who know nothing of these strong principles we hold high without compromising any of these. Few thank their Recruiter for helping them clean themselves up to get into the Army; whereas, virtually everyone revears their DI as the artist who painted Army Green int their veins. Your decision is certainly important to your career. Choose what is right for you. Do you want to stand in front of recruits, stand I front of civilians, or stand behind those you trained at an AIT graduation? It is ultimately where you will find comfort that matters.
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I was an 11B SFC and DA selected for Drill Sergeant duty at Ft. Dix New Jersey. I served as a Drill Sergeant and Senior Drill Sergeant for two years and as First Sergeant for 2 years after that. I feel Drill Sergeants have the opportunity to teach and mentor trainees through leadership by example that produces excellent soldiers for the force. Drill Sergeants also get to see the results of their work. After 40 years I still know the name of my Drill Sergeant (Holt). I do not remember my recruiter.
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I am partial to Drill Sergeant, but have to agree with COL Williams both are essential to our Army. As a Drill Sergeant your skills as a leader are refined, training, coaching, and mentoring become second nature. You wont get those leadership opportunities as a Recruiter, once the recruits paper work is complete, you move on to the next one. As for retirement, my advice is retire with a degree, the competition is real. Good luck to you.
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SFC Keith Bailey
You need to learn about the Delayed Entry Program.. Takes a lot of leadership and mentoring these people who many not ship for up to a year. They also can quit at anytime. Try holding a bunch of teenagers to this commitment with just a sales pitch..
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I was drafted into recruiting as a young Staff Sergeant (1983). Your actions do not control your destiny or accomplishments, the whims of others do.
I was drafted into being a Drill Sergeant in 1995 as an SFC. It was a much more physically demanding job and required even more time than recruiting but it was a much more fulfilling and enjoyable job.
I was drafted into being a Drill Sergeant in 1995 as an SFC. It was a much more physically demanding job and required even more time than recruiting but it was a much more fulfilling and enjoyable job.
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DS is fast track for promotions. Often you'll see CSM with the drill sergeant patch.
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I picked Drill Sergeant for this poll because I was a Recruiter. I would not wish Recruiter on anyone. It was a Three year black whole in my life and Career... I know the old adage about the grass is always greener wherever you are not. but There is more prestige and credit to having been a Drill than a Recruiter. The Army Needs both and they are both Career Enders or Enhancers. My Preference would be Drill. I wish I would have volunteered for Drill before I was selected for Recruiting. However I did see a couple recruiter who had Been Drills... that would have been a double helping of Suck...but as the Infantry say... EMBRACE the suck.
I was recruiting in the Los Angeles BN. Hard assignment, Nobody wanted to go in but I made mission more often than not and I got out with my skin in tact. I was a Gold badge with Triple Sapphires, Just short of a ring recruiter. It was 93-96 There were high Missions and a lot of recruiters who were bagged for improprieties and I was NOT one of them. I held my ground and made it out alive.
When Forced to Sink or swim back then Soldiers were good at making things happen to stay afloat but in the long run the short cuts were what got them. If they left the rules behind they were cannon fodder.
I was recruiting in the Los Angeles BN. Hard assignment, Nobody wanted to go in but I made mission more often than not and I got out with my skin in tact. I was a Gold badge with Triple Sapphires, Just short of a ring recruiter. It was 93-96 There were high Missions and a lot of recruiters who were bagged for improprieties and I was NOT one of them. I held my ground and made it out alive.
When Forced to Sink or swim back then Soldiers were good at making things happen to stay afloat but in the long run the short cuts were what got them. If they left the rules behind they were cannon fodder.
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SFC David Zamora
I feel for ya and my hat's off to you for having had to do it back then when it was really hard. I came in in 99 and I saw what my recruiter had to do and I didn't wanna do it either. My experience from 2008-2011 was much better and a whole lot easier. Hardly had to do anything because we had 10 recruiters and usually we were only on a station mission for 5-9 depending so everyone wasn't even expected to put in a contract. We still pushed for 1 per recruiter per month but if we made mission, we would hold the rest until after mission day.... and so it went... all we had to do was keep the funnel full.
I encouraged several of my old NCO's to go recruiting and I still talk to them and they all love it.
I encouraged several of my old NCO's to go recruiting and I still talk to them and they all love it.
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SFC Charles S.
Most months while I was on the BAG... I had a Mission of 3 or 4 Contracts a month. WOW... I can't imagine a month with only 1 contract.
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