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Recently, my grandson completed his Eagle Scout Service Program. This involved building a pavilion at a local Girl Scout Day Camp. Given some issues with scouting today and how some that were not scouts or who bad scouting experiences, some might thing this distinction not valuable in some circles.
So what are your thoughts about Scouting's Highest earned rank and its continued value after a youth's scouting career and their emergence into adulthood!
So what are your thoughts about Scouting's Highest earned rank and its continued value after a youth's scouting career and their emergence into adulthood!
Volunteering
Service
Scouting
Leadership
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 14
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I think it is fantastic and a wonderful achievement.
It won't amount to too much later in life, but it is certainly a feather in his cap and will look good on a college application or resume someday.
It won't amount to too much later in life, but it is certainly a feather in his cap and will look good on a college application or resume someday.
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MAJ Miyoko Bell
1SGT, it is a foundation to being organized and learning to communicate verbally, written and while leading a project. A project that is physical evidence of a good, bad or horrible job done. This is why the army gives rank to an Eagle Scout upon enlisting in the Army. If all your soldiers were Eagle Scouts, your job would be by far easier. Wow that would be a nice science experience!
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While acknowledging that Eagle Scouts are like the military in that you get out what you put in to it and there are both exemplary & poor examples in both, I myself value those who have earned their Eagle (as I did, for whatever bias that's worth).
When looking over job applicants, military veterans; first responders (Fire/EMS/Law Enforcement) and Scouts are the ones who go to the top of my list.
When looking over job applicants, military veterans; first responders (Fire/EMS/Law Enforcement) and Scouts are the ones who go to the top of my list.
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CPT (Join to see)
A number of years back during a job interview, I met with a VP. The first words out of his mouth were “I see you were an Eagle Scout.” He spent the entire interview talking about the BSA. Got the job.
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MAJ Miyoko Bell
I agree, you do have posers (have the rank but not the values), but they not the majority.
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This is a tough one. I wish there was an "Other" category, but I went with "STRINGLY value..." out of respect for the child who earns the award. However, my respect for scouting overall is greatly diminished. I was a Cub Scout when Harry Truman was President, and a Boy Scout when Eisenhower occupied the Oval Office. A Sea Scout too. To be perfectly honest, I have even greater respect for the Sea Scout Quartermaster rank than the Boy Scout Eagle. Eagle is earned by collecting merit badges through the acquisition of a little knowledge and skills in many disciplines. The Quartermaster is the master of piloting, seamanship, and small boat handling. Greater depth of knowledge and skill that can be applied both professionally and avocationally. Boy Scouting sadly lost its way in the 1960s when it succumbed to the same pressures that tore apart the fabric of American culture. Disrespect for the military uniform carried over to the Scouting uniform. To offset declining membership, Boy Scouts opened its membership from 14 years of age to 18 giving the boys (and girls) greater time to earn their Eagle. Quartermasters have earned their rank in the four years open to their membership in Sea Scouting. Interestingly, did you know that when Scouting opened the Explorer program to girls, they couldn't earn the Eagle. Scouting modified the rules stipulating that some of the Eagle requirements had to be met while a Scout (11 to 14) and girls couldn't come into Scouting until age 14. Of course, not that girls can join as Scouts at age 11, that undercuts that ploy. I hope this helps you see why I have to separate my respect for the Eagle and Scouting in general. There are many other reasons, but I feel that this should suffice.
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CPO Nate S.
CPT Jack Durish For my friends who held the Quartermaster they work as hard, and in some cases harder than I did. One guy I knew made Eagle at 14 and loved the water and EARNED the Quartermaster by near his 18th birthday. This is VERY rare!!!
I got my Eagle in 1972. I understand your point of view. I did know the issue about girls and Explorers. That as manipulation vs "stipulation". But, while it has taken time to correct that issue, it is not the case today. I just sat on this girl's 1st Class Board of Review. She is one of 2 older girls whose brothers are Eagles. Let me tell you. These girls are coming on strong and pushing the boys.
I ask my grandson when girls were approved about that. He said, "Grandpa, it is about time!" Of course I won' tell of the horrible my wife had in 1982 when we attended a Wood Badge Course together before we had children, that soured her on scouting for many, many years. She is proud of our grandson, but while she did not get in the way, she also did not encourage! This "encouragement" was 100% on m, his grandfather. It has been had, managing for ~ 40 yr what one "Professional" told my wife, who had not been exposed to scouting because her rural location, but was a very active 4-H type. Anyway some wounds for scouting have been SELF INFLICTED!!!
I just got asked to serve again on th 2021 National Jamboree staff. that will make me 65 and would be my 7th Jamboree experience (National Jamborees: 1972 - Youth; 1985, 2010, 2013, 2017 - Adult staff; and, World Jamboree 2019 - Adult Medical Logistics.) Like I shared with LCDR Joshua Gillespie the scouts I have seen at these events give me hope if we as adults can keep the - "politics" out and not screw things up!
I got my Eagle in 1972. I understand your point of view. I did know the issue about girls and Explorers. That as manipulation vs "stipulation". But, while it has taken time to correct that issue, it is not the case today. I just sat on this girl's 1st Class Board of Review. She is one of 2 older girls whose brothers are Eagles. Let me tell you. These girls are coming on strong and pushing the boys.
I ask my grandson when girls were approved about that. He said, "Grandpa, it is about time!" Of course I won' tell of the horrible my wife had in 1982 when we attended a Wood Badge Course together before we had children, that soured her on scouting for many, many years. She is proud of our grandson, but while she did not get in the way, she also did not encourage! This "encouragement" was 100% on m, his grandfather. It has been had, managing for ~ 40 yr what one "Professional" told my wife, who had not been exposed to scouting because her rural location, but was a very active 4-H type. Anyway some wounds for scouting have been SELF INFLICTED!!!
I just got asked to serve again on th 2021 National Jamboree staff. that will make me 65 and would be my 7th Jamboree experience (National Jamborees: 1972 - Youth; 1985, 2010, 2013, 2017 - Adult staff; and, World Jamboree 2019 - Adult Medical Logistics.) Like I shared with LCDR Joshua Gillespie the scouts I have seen at these events give me hope if we as adults can keep the - "politics" out and not screw things up!
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MAJ Miyoko Bell
Gentlemen,
As with everything, leadership is everything. The community in which I live in is a pocket of high Eagle Scout recipients second highest in the US. I have been by my son’s side every inch of the way, I was his den leader in cub scouts. I had to encourage him every step of the way, always asking,”are you sure you want to go one for Eagle?” Answer was always yes. I went away to Afghanistan came back a hot mess, but still encouraged my son. We live in land, with my issues that 8 years later, I am just now beginning to act human again. 9th grade I asked him if he still had Eagle as a goal, he said yes. I said that if you say yes now, I will not let you for any reason quit. I will keep at you and push you until it is done. He said it was something that he definitely wanted. Fast forward one year. He so wanted to give up on the goal, not scouts, just the goal. He didn’t want to have to manage school, fencing, Orchestra, working, church, scouts and Working on Eagle. So tell me how, perseverance, time management, history, community, communication, lifesaving, conservation are not valued? Have you gone all cynical about today’s youth? You have to keep in mind that these boys camp and do outside activities. Don’t degrade one aspect of scouting because of your preference. My son googled Eagle Scout, he had no idea that it was a prestigious award, because so many of our over achiever scouts obtain this rank. Once he realized it was something he could do for himself, by himself (with BSA and local leaders), he started that up hill climb into maturity, self-responsibility and combined effort vs friction against the inevitable. Please don’t place value on the award on what it does for those who can get ‘er done by age 15. Let’s look at how it can shape those who may need an extra push or whose parents are so fucked up that they are barely on the planet. I believe you are judging from a cat bird seat or pedi stool of your own making. Every program speaks to a different need, some get sea sickness rather easily, others would never want to be in a tent. I say thank goodness there are options for everyone and pending on the leadership something is taught or someone just checks a box. Under my command not even Cub Scouts ever just checked a box!
As with everything, leadership is everything. The community in which I live in is a pocket of high Eagle Scout recipients second highest in the US. I have been by my son’s side every inch of the way, I was his den leader in cub scouts. I had to encourage him every step of the way, always asking,”are you sure you want to go one for Eagle?” Answer was always yes. I went away to Afghanistan came back a hot mess, but still encouraged my son. We live in land, with my issues that 8 years later, I am just now beginning to act human again. 9th grade I asked him if he still had Eagle as a goal, he said yes. I said that if you say yes now, I will not let you for any reason quit. I will keep at you and push you until it is done. He said it was something that he definitely wanted. Fast forward one year. He so wanted to give up on the goal, not scouts, just the goal. He didn’t want to have to manage school, fencing, Orchestra, working, church, scouts and Working on Eagle. So tell me how, perseverance, time management, history, community, communication, lifesaving, conservation are not valued? Have you gone all cynical about today’s youth? You have to keep in mind that these boys camp and do outside activities. Don’t degrade one aspect of scouting because of your preference. My son googled Eagle Scout, he had no idea that it was a prestigious award, because so many of our over achiever scouts obtain this rank. Once he realized it was something he could do for himself, by himself (with BSA and local leaders), he started that up hill climb into maturity, self-responsibility and combined effort vs friction against the inevitable. Please don’t place value on the award on what it does for those who can get ‘er done by age 15. Let’s look at how it can shape those who may need an extra push or whose parents are so fucked up that they are barely on the planet. I believe you are judging from a cat bird seat or pedi stool of your own making. Every program speaks to a different need, some get sea sickness rather easily, others would never want to be in a tent. I say thank goodness there are options for everyone and pending on the leadership something is taught or someone just checks a box. Under my command not even Cub Scouts ever just checked a box!
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MAJ Miyoko Bell
My heart goes out to your wife. I have put up with such nonsense my entire life and certainly my military career. Boy Scouts is no different. It is much less and far gentler when you do run across it, but I recently did run across it from another parent. He was an Eagle Scout (In tank only... he was checking a box with that rank. Had never gone camping with his son until this event his son was 15 years old). This person kept eluding to the fact that he doesn’t psycho analyze. This comment was in response to a rude Scout who was taking out what ever issues he had on his scout leadership. The scout was so rude that I felt it was disrespectful and must be deleted with as it is the collapse of command if insubordination is not felt with respectfully. We were 3 adult leaders deep but this guy keep blowing off the issue and making seem that I was some how “being a mom.” I pulled aside another leader pulled the kid over and gave him a pep talk about his behavior more about how he was a great kid whom the sky is the limit but this attitude and negativity was going to hold him back. He would get there no doubt but it would take a lot longer with this issue. Then called out specific behaviors of insubordination and followed with how he of all people, I knew knows the rules and refs regarding rank and file subordinate and leadership. I knew he knew how and what was not good for the patrol, Ect. I was so pissed at the 3rd leader... the Eagle Scout, I don’t Perform psychoanalysis either but I can see when a good kid is off his game. DUH. I That was my last interaction with our local troop. I was a Major in the Army for Pete’s Sake why do these Men always act like women have no skills and abilities. You can’t be involved in the Army for 17 years Reserve or non that is still 17 years and not learn something about leading and shaping and guiding and helping. But, I give up because I should not have to keep explaining my competently. Men don’t do it why should I?
On a positive note, Girls are now in Boy Scouts and can attain the rank of Eagle! Now that is a miracle! CPO Nate S.
On a positive note, Girls are now in Boy Scouts and can attain the rank of Eagle! Now that is a miracle! CPO Nate S.
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I am an Eagle Scout, and I was recently very honored to have assisted another young man attain this goal in our town. On the whole, I'm sad to see where Scouting has gone over the last two decades... but honestly, I don't blame the boys, or many of the dedicated adult leaders trying to hold it together. Regrettably, it does seem to have become "easier" to achieve this status... I remember it being rather challenging as a teen, in no small part to the high levels of organization, planning, and maturity required to meet the requirements. In my personal opinion, "rules" prohibiting Scouts from using power tools to complete their Eagle Scout Projects, too much "parental" help, and a general reduction in the complexity/quality of projects accepted have taken their toll on what it "means" to make Eagle... but there's still hope.
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CPO Nate S.
LCDR Joshua Gillespie I made Eagle in 1972. You are right I bore responsibility for each aspect of the project.
I spent a summer rehabbing 20 pieces of playground equipment for a Children's Center (aka a place that worked with mentally and physical handicapped kids.) I used an electric belt sander and a circular saw. The saw for the one aspect of the project was under adult supervision, but I used it. Of course my father who passed in 1999 was a furniture builder and we built all sorts of things I was not irresponsible. I actually took pictures when each piece was finished. Of course, I used a then "state of the art" Polaroid Instant Camera. I'd take each photo home and type the date of completion and the name of each piece. The back of these "instant pictures" was white so I could turn them over and write what I did and why on the back. Taught me to first write out what I wanted to say, then test typed it on plain paper inside the lines of a tracing of the photo edges. This help me to write (which may not be apparent now) with brevity. -:)
In any event, he prebuilt it off site, disassembled it in part and then transported it to the site where he transformed a makeshift set up to something the girls that will b using this day camp in 2020 will be happy to use. I am very proud of him!
After attending the 1973 National Jamboree as a youth, I have been privileged to serve on the staffs for the 1985, 2010, 2013, 2017 National Scout Jamborees and the 2019 World Scout Jamboree. I can tell the kids in the USA and around the world, if we give them a real chance will do great things. Scouting has its "politics" that I cannot tolerate, personally, but I know exists. You are correct, it is NOT the kids!!!
In closing, my grandson learned a great deal. Our job as Eagle's is to make sure they have opportunity and to protect them from the - politics!!!
Thanks for sharing!
I spent a summer rehabbing 20 pieces of playground equipment for a Children's Center (aka a place that worked with mentally and physical handicapped kids.) I used an electric belt sander and a circular saw. The saw for the one aspect of the project was under adult supervision, but I used it. Of course my father who passed in 1999 was a furniture builder and we built all sorts of things I was not irresponsible. I actually took pictures when each piece was finished. Of course, I used a then "state of the art" Polaroid Instant Camera. I'd take each photo home and type the date of completion and the name of each piece. The back of these "instant pictures" was white so I could turn them over and write what I did and why on the back. Taught me to first write out what I wanted to say, then test typed it on plain paper inside the lines of a tracing of the photo edges. This help me to write (which may not be apparent now) with brevity. -:)
In any event, he prebuilt it off site, disassembled it in part and then transported it to the site where he transformed a makeshift set up to something the girls that will b using this day camp in 2020 will be happy to use. I am very proud of him!
After attending the 1973 National Jamboree as a youth, I have been privileged to serve on the staffs for the 1985, 2010, 2013, 2017 National Scout Jamborees and the 2019 World Scout Jamboree. I can tell the kids in the USA and around the world, if we give them a real chance will do great things. Scouting has its "politics" that I cannot tolerate, personally, but I know exists. You are correct, it is NOT the kids!!!
In closing, my grandson learned a great deal. Our job as Eagle's is to make sure they have opportunity and to protect them from the - politics!!!
Thanks for sharing!
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
Our local troop is down to about one Scout...not sure if it's going to last long enough for my little Buddy to join (he's still too young). Many of my classmates at USNA were Scouts and many of those were Eagle Scout... in my opinion, it shows. I was also in the CAP concurrent with Scouting, and learned a bit there that was useful later on.
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MAJ Miyoko Bell
It is about leadership, please remain involved and make a difference in your area. This is what elevates scouting in our area.
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MAJ Miyoko Bell
Thanks for sharing and let’s keep scouting going! We have to remember our wold is so different now then it was when we were their age. Most kids don’t even know how to fix anything. Just toss it out buy another, problem solving skills are not there. After all we do not manufacture much in the US any more.CPO Nate S.
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All I can tell you is that folks here introduce me as a retired CSM and Eagle Scout. That said; if people in business use it in introductions they must think it's of value for the organization or business's reputation.
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A while back I was surprised and disappointed to learn that the *swimming* and *lifesaving* merit badges were no longer Eagle Scout *requirements.* For sure, it makes perfect sense to have other options for handicapped Scouts; however, I always felt that dropping those aquatic requirements was a disservice as they provided a great skill set that would carry over into adulthood. Last time I checked upwards of 2/3 of the globe is covered by water.
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TSgt David Holman
I agree with this statement. Instead of removing them from the core, they should have offered an alternative badge that would accommodate.
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CPO Nate S.
TSgt David Holman - I agree - alternatives. Of course they reinstated both!
Now a kid can do either Lifesaving or Emergency Preparedness and either swimming, hiking or cycling. So non-swimming handicapped kids get to do EP an either hiking or cycling. I know many handicapped scouts that have done combo 50+ milers using canoes and special bikes.
Now a kid can do either Lifesaving or Emergency Preparedness and either swimming, hiking or cycling. So non-swimming handicapped kids get to do EP an either hiking or cycling. I know many handicapped scouts that have done combo 50+ milers using canoes and special bikes.
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MAJ Miyoko Bell
They do! I can’t recall the name but photo is below. The silver circle is Eagle required
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Anyone who has ever gotten a teenager to jump through a number number of hoops , knows it is highly difficult. Add a number of hoops and meeting a number of requirements just to be allowed to complete the equivalent to a small business (development a plan, write up the plan, raise funds, organize multiple meetings with your supervisors, your clients and your unpaid workers, secure workers and supplies) and manage a variety of factors that are out of your control weather, logistics, illness.... Manage everything and then write up everything (after action review). Furthermore, it has to then be approved by several committees, all before their 18th birthday . Yes, highly valued. I might add that with the caliber of today’s youth, the Rank of Eagle Scout should be valued even more. Even if a parent is non stop riding a scouts ass, they still have to do it themselves. You can’t do it for them, for Boys and Girls of this age, this is huge amount of responsibility and management. My hat goes off to any Eagle Scout. Boys more than girls because honestly at this age, it is extremely difficult for boys to manage and thus why the award and rank is a feat to be awed by! I hope this educates why this rank is so respected.
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MAJ Miyoko Bell
Actually, it does and respect is very high among the, duty to God and country is all very strong. Whether it is enforced or not is local leadership. Guys stop complaining and start leading!!!!CPO Nate S.
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CPO Nate S.
MAJ Miyoko Bell - Are you accusing of me personally of NOT LEADING? I have been engaged and leading in Scouting for > 50 yrs. I am a 3-bead Wood Badge recipient, Eagle w/ Palms Class of 1972, have the following Jamborees (National - 1973, 1985, 2010, 2013, 2017/World - 2019), and have had roles from Cubmaster to Unit Committee Chairman, to JLT (aka NYLT) Staff member under my belt during that time. I currently Chess MB and am very proud to announce my grandson just OFFICIALLY received his Eagle Scout Badge.
I am asking the question because there is a "media biased perception" in the greater community that scouting, especially as a result of its "sexual abuse" issues, is not valued and that the Eagle has no value to many. But, this is in a limited number of circles that seem to have the biggest mouthpieces and largest axes to grind for various reasons.
Scouting has made some errors , no doubt! Yet, like the dream of a "...more perfect union..." for our nation Scouting strives to "... be a more perfect union for the honest leadership development of young men and now an ever growing number of young girls entering its ranks with their eye on the prize of Eagle Scout..."!
FYI, the current survey results bear out a different view with only 10% (~1 in 10) that are absolutely unfavorable. Off course the limited data set of 21 respondents of the ~1,230 viewers of this post is no real statistical model (aka <2% response rate). However, it would have been interesting if 100 to 200 of those 1,200+ viewers had responded with a vote. Yet, the data from this limited response it interesting and if it were to hold across a larger sample size it would be even more interesting.
Anyway....Just saying....
I am asking the question because there is a "media biased perception" in the greater community that scouting, especially as a result of its "sexual abuse" issues, is not valued and that the Eagle has no value to many. But, this is in a limited number of circles that seem to have the biggest mouthpieces and largest axes to grind for various reasons.
Scouting has made some errors , no doubt! Yet, like the dream of a "...more perfect union..." for our nation Scouting strives to "... be a more perfect union for the honest leadership development of young men and now an ever growing number of young girls entering its ranks with their eye on the prize of Eagle Scout..."!
FYI, the current survey results bear out a different view with only 10% (~1 in 10) that are absolutely unfavorable. Off course the limited data set of 21 respondents of the ~1,230 viewers of this post is no real statistical model (aka <2% response rate). However, it would have been interesting if 100 to 200 of those 1,200+ viewers had responded with a vote. Yet, the data from this limited response it interesting and if it were to hold across a larger sample size it would be even more interesting.
Anyway....Just saying....
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I went with strongly based on the program as it was when I earned mine back in the late 90s. I think there is a lot of good that comes from scouting organizations, and I still see a value in that. With that said, there are changes that are happening within all scouting organizations that make me scratch my head and wonder how it is helping to develop leadership and well rounded young adults. There are too many political games being played, and too much pandering to the politically correct side that it almost makes it a wash. The bones are good, but they are going a little overboard with the modifications.
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