Posted on Dec 5, 2013
Fact or Fiction? If outside, under cover, you are not required to wear head gear.
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I get to hear a lot of interesting questions and stories.<div><br></div><div>Figured I would start postingg some "common" stuff that either I heard growing up or Soldiers have told me that they have heard.</div><div><br></div><div>Want to see what folks have been told, what they believe and what is actually right.</div>
Army
Uniforms
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 33
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I remember being a dumb private and believing this rumor. I educated myself though; one time I was corrected for not wearing it outdoors and me, being the smart ass I am, quoted this as if it were told to me by God myself. The NCO turned around and told me to bring him the printed regulation, or the page and section of 670-1 that said that. If I couldn't find it, I was to write a 5,000 word essay on why it was important to research my own answers, and how that applied to being a leader.
Needless to say after that 5,000 word essay...I understood and I never take people's opinions at face value.
Adding to the fire, of the discussion....
Can soldier's walk and smoke/talk on cellphones/eat/drink? This answer always kills me.
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG,
AR 670-1
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(d) Soldiers will not walk while engaged in activities that would interfere with the hand salute and greeting of the day or detract from a professional image. Examples include, but are not limited to, walking while eating, using electronic devices, or smoking cigarettes, cigars, or pips.
I've never seen an issue with walking and drinking from say a water bottle, so long as you are aware of any incoming Officer or SNCO that would require a salute\greeting of the day.
AR 670-1
3-6
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(d) Soldiers will not walk while engaged in activities that would interfere with the hand salute and greeting of the day or detract from a professional image. Examples include, but are not limited to, walking while eating, using electronic devices, or smoking cigarettes, cigars, or pips.
I've never seen an issue with walking and drinking from say a water bottle, so long as you are aware of any incoming Officer or SNCO that would require a salute\greeting of the day.
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Where did this three wall building idea even come from? I can't imagine the military is full of three walled buildings. They can't be that common at all to base a regulation off of it.
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CSM Mike Maynard
SFC Watson, hahahaha, annnnnnd roger - West Point. That is there definition of "inside" - when they can take off their headgear.
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SGT (Join to see)
I was told it had something to do with the motor pool, I think... like maybe someone was trying to say that you became "outside" when the doors were rolled up??? At any rate, I'd just say if you feel like you *might* be outside, just put your headgear on and drive on...
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SSG Robert Burns
That's insane. "When you roll up the doors you are outside?" So when I open the front door of my my house Im outside too?
And to think all these years getting in trouble for throwing the ball inside, and all i had to do was open a door.
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CW4 Scott Hyde
It was made up on the spot to support an interpretation of a rule that did not exist.
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CSM Mike Maynard
SSG Przeszlowski - I'm sure you have heard that growing up in the Army, but nope, Fiction.
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CSM Mike Maynard,
This is a great question. It is amazing how many urban legends and twisted regs by barracks lawyers are out there.
Recently I witnessed an NCO on PTs who stated to me (on ACU) that he does not have to salute because he is "under cover". We are outside waiting for the gym to open. The roof is about 10 feet high and extends maybe 3 feet.
He dug the hole deeper by saying that "its in the regulation, I'm under cover, I dont have to salute". Due to time limitation we went our separate ways that day. He was polite and professional on his responses, just inaccurate. On the next PT day at 0530 I closed the conversation with him and explain to him about outdoors and indoors. All professional, the same way I would expect any NCO or private to correct me.
What is unfortunate about the situation is to have this NCO state its on the regulation (without stating which one) when in fact there is nothing on any the regulation.
The NCO stated that he talked about it with other NCOs and when it doubt he should just salute. I took it positively because he tried to re-check his azimuth. But I can tell that he still does not agree and was holding on to his secret AR.
In the end, its another solder, now NCO, who believed an urban legend for many years.
This is a great question. It is amazing how many urban legends and twisted regs by barracks lawyers are out there.
Recently I witnessed an NCO on PTs who stated to me (on ACU) that he does not have to salute because he is "under cover". We are outside waiting for the gym to open. The roof is about 10 feet high and extends maybe 3 feet.
He dug the hole deeper by saying that "its in the regulation, I'm under cover, I dont have to salute". Due to time limitation we went our separate ways that day. He was polite and professional on his responses, just inaccurate. On the next PT day at 0530 I closed the conversation with him and explain to him about outdoors and indoors. All professional, the same way I would expect any NCO or private to correct me.
What is unfortunate about the situation is to have this NCO state its on the regulation (without stating which one) when in fact there is nothing on any the regulation.
The NCO stated that he talked about it with other NCOs and when it doubt he should just salute. I took it positively because he tried to re-check his azimuth. But I can tell that he still does not agree and was holding on to his secret AR.
In the end, its another solder, now NCO, who believed an urban legend for many years.
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Sadly the CSM is right, far too many people in the Army fail to educate themselves and or question unwritten rules and merely act like lemmings.
Plain an simple in my rule book, if you live or work there it is considered indoors, that includes tents in the field. Other than that you had better have a cover on.
Even as an MP with the right to wear indoors when under arms I tend to still take mine off because I'm pretty sure the gun belt and pistol lets people know I am armed.
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MAJ (Join to see)
My 1st 5 years I was an MP (95-2000, Enlisted) and I usually wore my cover when I went indoors for a call or other circumstances. I remember going to chow and keeping it on until I got to the chow line and then I would take it off.
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The most common scenario I've seen is filling up gas at the shoppette. The Soldier will not wear headgear stating they're under cover. On the spot corrections will fix this.
Two exceptions is we don't normally wear headgear when conducting PRT in ACUs and I don't let my subordinates wear PCs while in kit. If you're in kit, you wear your ACH. No issue dropping the helmet for a short period of time. You want to wear your PC, you drop kit.
Something I was taught long ago. In the 90s 2/75 would wear IBA with ballistic helmet and when it was time to drop helmet, they'd downgrade to boonie/PC with their LBE/LCE. Later into the 00s, when we put on kit the beret went away; and we'd never wear beret with camo on our face. So I still enforce the basic that when you put on kit, the PC goes away.
Two exceptions is we don't normally wear headgear when conducting PRT in ACUs and I don't let my subordinates wear PCs while in kit. If you're in kit, you wear your ACH. No issue dropping the helmet for a short period of time. You want to wear your PC, you drop kit.
Something I was taught long ago. In the 90s 2/75 would wear IBA with ballistic helmet and when it was time to drop helmet, they'd downgrade to boonie/PC with their LBE/LCE. Later into the 00s, when we put on kit the beret went away; and we'd never wear beret with camo on our face. So I still enforce the basic that when you put on kit, the PC goes away.
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SFC (Join to see)
"Subordinates" is a pretty rough term 1SG. Over a 20 year career I don't recall ever hearing that term used. Maybe it was the type of units I have been in, I could be just reading it wrong. If I did I apologize. Also, who were you with in 2/75? I have a lot of friends that went left 3rd and went to 2nd. Just curious if you guys were there at the same time. Might know each other. It always amazes me how small the Army is.
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SFC (Join to see)
I know the NCO creed has the word in it, but there are archaic terms in there as well. It just seems like when the term is used that the user is implying that they are better than their subordinates. I wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy so I asked a couple of E-9's I worked with in the past the same question and they said they have never heard it used, but that is not to say there are units that use it. So as I stated earlier, no offense was meant, I have just never heard it used before.
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There is no such thing as cover mentioned in 670-1 when outside. Your head gear is to be worn when outside.
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If there is a sign that says "no hat no salute area" then that is as it should be. Otherwise wear head gear.
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CSM Mike Maynard
SFC (Join to see) , there's another thread on here that speaks directly to those "infamous" no hat / no salute areas and the question of who exactly has the authority to contradict an Army Regulation.
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CW4 Scott Hyde
If there is a roof over your head, why spend the money on a sign? You are under cover.
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CSM, you bring up a great question for the young soldiers and NCO'S, FICTION, it's clearly stated in the regulation .
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