Posted on Apr 26, 2016
Female DA Civilian is a Workplace Bully & Sexually Harassed Soldiers and other Civilians. How do you make the workplace safe?
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A GS-9 mistreats and sexually harasses many Civilians and Soldiers on post at work. She was reported back in 2015 several times. A 15-6 Investigation substantiated she is all of this, and the recommendations were for her to not work around either Soldiers or Civilians. Yet she is still in the workplace, continuing her destruction of harm to people around her. What can the people that work with her do to stay safe from her harm, since they are not being provided a Safe and Healthy Workplace?
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 22
CSM Jane Baldwin,
If she did anything wrong, IAW Army policy, and anyone has proof, they should already have their behind at the IG office. I have been both the target and user of the IG. That is where to go. Next is the the command lawyer in the Special Staff. Then, look for the CPAC representative. In your position, a CSM in a unit with civilians, you need to make some friends at the Civilian Personnel Office. Go to lunch with them and DO NOT ask for something. They will be much happier to talk to you when you do have a problem.
If she did anything wrong, IAW Army policy, and anyone has proof, they should already have their behind at the IG office. I have been both the target and user of the IG. That is where to go. Next is the the command lawyer in the Special Staff. Then, look for the CPAC representative. In your position, a CSM in a unit with civilians, you need to make some friends at the Civilian Personnel Office. Go to lunch with them and DO NOT ask for something. They will be much happier to talk to you when you do have a problem.
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CSM (Join to see)
I think it just comes down to caring about people. If you care for people you do not let others abuse them with their conduct.
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Okay, I just review your profile. Are you a reserve CSM? Are you part of the command team that this civilian is under? Is this civilian a "USAR Military Technician" or DAC? Depending on how you answer these questions will make a big difference. You might want to stand back particularly if you are not within the command chain as CSM.
While my previous comments are still very valid in a general sense, the politics of the command structure may speed up or slow down the disciplinary process. I am know something with your current command structure within USARC. Trust me, within the USAR there is a tendency to not tackle a "tar baby" outright and it usually takes something drastic to trigger aggressive disciplinary action.
While my previous comments are still very valid in a general sense, the politics of the command structure may speed up or slow down the disciplinary process. I am know something with your current command structure within USARC. Trust me, within the USAR there is a tendency to not tackle a "tar baby" outright and it usually takes something drastic to trigger aggressive disciplinary action.
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Sorry for my ignorance, what is a 15-6, is this a Army thing or have I been out to long.
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LTC Jason Mackay
15-6 is the Army Regulation for investigations. They can be formal or informal depending on what the commander thinks they need done. It lays out how to conduct and document the investigation. An investigation is colloquially referred to as a 15-6.
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CSM
IT would gave to be EEO or IG. I do believe tje IG or EEO FOR FEDERAL has a hotline
IT would gave to be EEO or IG. I do believe tje IG or EEO FOR FEDERAL has a hotline
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CSM (Join to see)
I know I need to do some kind of follow up and get to the right agency that can do something to get her out of the workplace around people. I still feel she should have a job somewhere just not around people. Maybe telecommunting.
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Sergeant Major:
When I was assigned at the Weapons Station, Seal Beach, CA, wayyyyyyyy back in the day, there was a GS 7 or 9 who worked close to us that went through literally 2 years of disciplinary steps before he was finally fired. Charges to include: Theft, fraud, FTR, etc.....
The system is so different from how the UCMJ works, it's sickening. I believe (If memory serves) you can see all of the disciplinary steps afforded to civilian employees in the DoD Persman 50001 series.
So, it is not surprising that the person of whom you speak is still there.
When I was assigned at the Weapons Station, Seal Beach, CA, wayyyyyyyy back in the day, there was a GS 7 or 9 who worked close to us that went through literally 2 years of disciplinary steps before he was finally fired. Charges to include: Theft, fraud, FTR, etc.....
The system is so different from how the UCMJ works, it's sickening. I believe (If memory serves) you can see all of the disciplinary steps afforded to civilian employees in the DoD Persman 50001 series.
So, it is not surprising that the person of whom you speak is still there.
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CSM (Join to see)
MSgt Michael Bischoff - Yes I agree that anyone that is letting her stay in the workplace is just as guilty as she is for harming all these people.
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LTC Jason Mackay
CW3 Stephen Bacon CSM (Join to see) , there are what is called Douglas factors. It is a ladder of disciplinary actions. There is a matrix that has "crime-do the time" which lays out minimum and maximum actions. It is between CPAC and the supervisor to figure this out. Unfortunately, it doesn't go directly to firing unless it is criminal (shortfall in the system). This matrix is usually in the union CBA.
If she has actually committed criminal conduct, which jumps all that, if the federal prosecutor wants to go after it in court. I have seen civilian employees at he GS-14/15 level confronted with resign or go to trial with absolutely no recourse.
She is a GS-9 for God's sake! She is not immune to anything. The people around her have to be Snow White clean so her smokescreen counter accusations won't stick. This is usually why "nothing happens". People need to be on the best behavior, follow rules to the letter, and no favors, for anyone. This is hard. This is one of the worst defenses leveraged by incompetent people that know they are, and abuse complaint processes to cover their incompetence.
There is the employee assistance route. Send her three times with specific counseling, declare her a rehab failure and fire her. If she refuses employee assistance, then I think that gives you more options.
CPAC and the senior supervisor have to be together on this. Don't inform her she will be disciplined until the CPAC documentation is ready for each instance (some move like a glacier). Once it is ready, drop it on her so she can't spin it. She also can't run and grieve it to the union before you can do it. Once she is suspended, next stop is unemploymentsville. She will either change, leave, or work on getting herself fired.
There has to be more to this, I have seen people fired for less. The senior supervisor, CPAC, and the CJA/Labor Lawyer had to have at least huddled on the 15-6. Normally, "nothing happens" when there is no documentation. Everyone agrees they need to go, but there is fart gas level of evidence (smells bad but nothing you can put your hands on). I have seen people fired or moved based on 15-6s findings and recommendations.
The commander/senior supervisor didn't want to pursue it, the lawyer didn't think it would stand up in labor court, and/ or CPAC got cold feet. Were you in this person's supervisory chain?
If she has actually committed criminal conduct, which jumps all that, if the federal prosecutor wants to go after it in court. I have seen civilian employees at he GS-14/15 level confronted with resign or go to trial with absolutely no recourse.
She is a GS-9 for God's sake! She is not immune to anything. The people around her have to be Snow White clean so her smokescreen counter accusations won't stick. This is usually why "nothing happens". People need to be on the best behavior, follow rules to the letter, and no favors, for anyone. This is hard. This is one of the worst defenses leveraged by incompetent people that know they are, and abuse complaint processes to cover their incompetence.
There is the employee assistance route. Send her three times with specific counseling, declare her a rehab failure and fire her. If she refuses employee assistance, then I think that gives you more options.
CPAC and the senior supervisor have to be together on this. Don't inform her she will be disciplined until the CPAC documentation is ready for each instance (some move like a glacier). Once it is ready, drop it on her so she can't spin it. She also can't run and grieve it to the union before you can do it. Once she is suspended, next stop is unemploymentsville. She will either change, leave, or work on getting herself fired.
There has to be more to this, I have seen people fired for less. The senior supervisor, CPAC, and the CJA/Labor Lawyer had to have at least huddled on the 15-6. Normally, "nothing happens" when there is no documentation. Everyone agrees they need to go, but there is fart gas level of evidence (smells bad but nothing you can put your hands on). I have seen people fired or moved based on 15-6s findings and recommendations.
The commander/senior supervisor didn't want to pursue it, the lawyer didn't think it would stand up in labor court, and/ or CPAC got cold feet. Were you in this person's supervisory chain?
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CSM (Join to see)
LTC Jason Mackay - Sir no I was not in her chain at all. I had Soldiers harmed by her. I am just the person that was willing to expose her. It appears she has been doing this for years. Interesting point out of the 8 Targets I had discovered only three were willing to come forward and be willing to talk to an investigator. There were 4 Civilians and 4 Soldiers, and only three of the Soldiers agreed to talk. The rest wanted to stay clear of it, since she is an expert at framing others to look like the bad guy. The 15-6 which was done poorly did state she should have no contact with Soldiers or Civilians. I cannot fathom how she got around those recommendations, but she is a pathological liar and good at it. I am sure she has had more Targets, but that is all I could find in my short time in that place. I noticed she had no empathy for other people, and I understand what that means. She has acted so long with impunity that she realizes she can keep doing whatever she wants.
On other actions she has done which was reported to housing, she stored Civilian household goods in a military barracks. Once caught she tried to get my Soldiers to move Civilian household goods out of the barracks. I told them to not touch Civilian Household Goods. She then had the Contractors use GSA vehicles to move the Civilian Household goods into Military Connexes. This was done all out in the open and one of my Soldiers took pictures and texted to me while I was on leave. I told him to report it which he did. She was already retaliating against him every chance she could, and after this she made him her biggest Target. She is still in the workplace and the rest of us that know what she is and what she has done just scratch our heads saying "whaaaaat?"
On other actions she has done which was reported to housing, she stored Civilian household goods in a military barracks. Once caught she tried to get my Soldiers to move Civilian household goods out of the barracks. I told them to not touch Civilian Household Goods. She then had the Contractors use GSA vehicles to move the Civilian Household goods into Military Connexes. This was done all out in the open and one of my Soldiers took pictures and texted to me while I was on leave. I told him to report it which he did. She was already retaliating against him every chance she could, and after this she made him her biggest Target. She is still in the workplace and the rest of us that know what she is and what she has done just scratch our heads saying "whaaaaat?"
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LTC Jason Mackay
CSM (Join to see) - Pictures? Sworn statements? I am not a lawyer, but Iwatched Matlock in a bar last night. Volume was down, but I got the gist. Fraud? Misusing government property?
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As noted otherwise, a 15-6 is just a tool for the commander. It culminates in a recommendation. It holds no authority or ability to cause an action. That takes a commander.
The commander either agrees with the 15-6 findings to an extant action is warranted or they do not. If not, then nothing is done.
Those that feel "targeted" by this persons actions should do thier job to the best of their abilities, observe and note transgression of the other, continue to make observations known the the command team.
If that does not bring about change, then the IG is the next step....being reminded the first question the IG will ask and confirme is "have you spoken/used/informed your chain of command?"
The commander either agrees with the 15-6 findings to an extant action is warranted or they do not. If not, then nothing is done.
Those that feel "targeted" by this persons actions should do thier job to the best of their abilities, observe and note transgression of the other, continue to make observations known the the command team.
If that does not bring about change, then the IG is the next step....being reminded the first question the IG will ask and confirme is "have you spoken/used/informed your chain of command?"
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CSM (Join to see)
The Command has the results up to a very, very high rank. I am starting to think it will have to be an outside source.
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CSM (Join to see)
Maybe there just needs to be an outside Investigation, so in the end it will actually protect all her Targets from her.
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From what I understand of GS/DA Civilian employees.....it's a very long lengthy road of a process to remove someone.....and that's IF all the paper trail is in order.
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